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Freepower 01-07-2009 09:53 PM

Composition Chat/Critique
 
1 Attachment(s)
I know there's a chat thread and composition critique group but this can double as both and get more exposure. Credit for the idea goes to one vision. Perhaps a sticky if the response is good.

Anyway, the basic idea is to to chat about, analyse and discuss our own compositions, showing compositional techniques in action!

Try to keep it composition based, don't let yourselves drift into Chat Thread territory.

Okay, I'll start the ball rolling. Here's one of my compositions, entitled "Too Many Kooks" -

The idea was to go for a kind of Daft Punk feel, the real guitar riff (which I came across in a noodling situation) harmonised by synth guitars. It's in the key of B minor, basically because it sounded so chunky and right on the low B and I just had to keep it there.

The harmonised arpeggio "chorus" is an idea I naturally went towards due to the amount of Sonic The Hedgehog music I was listening to at the time - that and "Searchin" by Satriani, with it's wicked arpeggio whammy stuff. I tried to incorporate a few other elements as well, things that I do to a degree almost everwhere, the kinds of chords in "Track 4" should give you an idea of my taste in voicings and the influences of pentatonic asiatic folk music and Steve Vai. :p:

Other than that, introduced a fun pinch harmonic riff for the solo section, which is a trade-off between a "real" guitar and a few synth'd DP cliches. :p:

Drums, straight ahead and simple, can't see anything interesting there really, just keep the song going really. :p: Actually, looking at them now I remember that I spent a fair bit of time putting together the little hi-hat flourishes under the chorus, I think they make a big difference. What say you?

Finally, this song was one of those "cobbled together in an hour or so" pieces, so it's rough around the edges and terribly titled - but I think it holds together well enough.

So, opinions, critiques, suggestions, adulation or negs all welcome, GP attached for your analysing pleasure. :) (minus solo, which was pretty obviously pure improv :p: )

ED : oops, forgot to attach file I'd claimed I'd attached. :p:

one vision 01-07-2009 09:56 PM

*subscribed*.

I'll listen when I get home, but if it's on your youtube, I've probably heard it lol. I'll listen again anyways.

:cheers:

I have one composition written. Link in sig. It's a classical guitar romance, influenced by Beethoven and Chopin, and pretty much music of the romantic era.

I'm hoping to write a set of "Romances", one in each key. Currently working on my second and third simultaneously.

Yup. :D

demonofthenight 01-07-2009 09:59 PM

Thread needs more sheet music...

It's so much harder to critique a composition without sheet music. Maybe we should post everything in guitar-pro and youtube?

Freepower 01-07-2009 10:09 PM

One vision, it'd be really cool to hear your approach to, eg, modulation, within those pieces, with a few sections of example. Better than just knowing what period you're imitating. :p:

Demon, just export the GP into Sibelius if the tab hurts your eyes that much. It's useful to see how the ideas are fingered even if we suppose that even a tenth of the membership of this forum can read at all.

And GP and youtube sounds pretty damn good to me for future entries. :p:

SG Man Forever 01-07-2009 10:42 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Here's one of my compositions, it only has bass and guitar so far, I was going for a kind of Iron Maiden kind of feel when I wrote it. The whole thing is just in D minor. Anyway, the song is just based around 3 main riffs, the first one is just a run down of the scale, with lots of pedal tones, and then harmonized in octaves, thirds, and fourths. The second riff shows how you can get interesting results by changing time signatures from bar to bar. The third riff is pretty straight forward, and provides a very easy chord progression to solo over. The solo itself is at first simply a single note version of that riff, followed by some ornamentation, then a very fast run to mark the beginning of the second section of the solo, which is basically a very long run down the scale, interspersed every other bar by rejoining the chord progression, giving a sense of togetherness. The final riff is a fast melodic line harmonized for both guitars, also with lots of pedal notes.

one vision 01-08-2009 12:23 AM

Romance No.1 in D minor.

GP File. Analyze the hell out of it :p:

I don't really know where to start. I more or less stayed in D minor most of the time.

The middle section, F Major, had a modulation to Bb Major in it for a while, then back again through a cheap chromatic thing into a C7 :p:.

Yeaah.

Ignore the writing at the bars showing which part is where, Major/Minor whatever.

I forgot to update it as I was going along. Lol.

RedDeath9 01-08-2009 12:46 AM

I have three RPG style things on my profile. Check them out if you have time :p: I'm not an expert on theory or anything.

Lately I've been trying to incorporate more... "emotion" into my riffs. Like, if the riff doesn't have any emotional content, I won't use it.

SG Man Forever 01-08-2009 01:11 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by one vision
Romance No.1 in D minor.

GP File. Analyze the hell out of it :p:

I don't really know where to start. I more or less stayed in D minor most of the time.

The middle section, F Major, had a modulation to Bb Major in it for a while, then back again through a cheap chromatic thing into a C7 :p:.

Yeaah.

Ignore the writing at the bars showing which part is where, Major/Minor whatever.

I forgot to update it as I was going along. Lol.


Cool, I was kind of wanting to learn that. I'll post my other composition (Cruel Sea) here when I finish the drums in the next day or so. For those who haven't heard the original drafts of it, it's a heavy metal thing reminiscent of The Call of Ktulu by Metallica. I'll talk about it more when I post it.

one vision 01-08-2009 01:15 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SG Man Forever
Cool, I was kind of wanting to learn that. I'll post my other composition (Cruel Sea) here when I finish the drums in the next day or so. For those who haven't heard the original drafts of it, it's a heavy metal thing reminiscent of The Call of Ktulu by Metallica. I'll talk about it more when I post it.

:cheers:

I'll listen to the one you posted when I have sound.

demonofthenight 01-08-2009 01:29 AM

BTW, guys, I'm mostly analysing/critiquing the starts of songs more than the ends. Just cause I'm lazy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SG Man Forever
Here's one of my compositions, it only has bass and guitar so far, I was going for a kind of Iron Maiden kind of feel when I wrote it. The whole thing is just in D minor. Anyway, the song is just based around 3 main riffs, the first one is just a run down of the scale, with lots of pedal tones, and then harmonized in octaves, thirds, and fourths. The second riff shows how you can get interesting results by changing time signatures from bar to bar. The third riff is pretty straight forward, and provides a very easy chord progression to solo over. The solo itself is at first simply a single note version of that riff, followed by some ornamentation, then a very fast run to mark the beginning of the second section of the solo, which is basically a very long run down the scale, interspersed every other bar by rejoining the chord progression, giving a sense of togetherness. The final riff is a fast melodic line harmonized for both guitars, also with lots of pedal notes.
There's alot of minor seventh harmonic intervals on strong beats in your song. Generally most guys avoid that.

Normally on strong beats (first beat of the bar) you'd want to keep all harmonic intervals as either third, sixths, Perfect fifths or octaves (the last two can be used, but should be avoided). Perfect fourths also, but not between the bass and the second lowest part.

There's also alot of octave stuff, which does sound cool, but sort of stuffs the individualization of the parts. For instance, if I wrote a song with two parts completely harmonized in octaves or fifths, it would sound like one beefy part instead of two individual parts.
Quote:
Romance No.1 in D minor.

GP File. Analyze the hell out of it

I don't really know where to start. I more or less stayed in D minor most of the time.

The middle section, F Major, had a modulation to Bb Major in it for a while, then back again through a cheap chromatic thing into a C7 .

Yeaah.

Ignore the writing at the bars showing which part is where, Major/Minor whatever.

I forgot to update it as I was going along. Lol.
Same with mr SG, watch out for dissonance on stressed beats.

I heard some chromatic lines in there, which sounds great. I also heard some andrew lloyd webber and beethoven in there :p: (.

I like how you've phrased your main melody, but I noticed each phrase is finishing on the same note. When repeating a phrase you don't need to copy them exactly, it's usually best to change a few notes (especially the last notes). The best notes to end on are the 2nd, 5th, 6th and 3rd notes of the scale.
Keeping in mind the last phrase of each verse (or movement) should resolve stepwise to the tonic of the scale.

Not a bad peice.

I might write something later, right now I feel out of it.

one vision 01-08-2009 01:34 AM

^ Thanks! :cheers:

It's my first piece, so I didn't expect it to be completely amazing lol.

Before the middle section, I kinda did a different thing, I resolved to F Major, and then started the middle section.

But, hey. It's a piece of the "romantic era", where all rules of harmony were broken :p:

Thanks for the input though. Informative indeed, especially the part about what notes to end parts of the phrase on.

Also, could you elaborate on the "dissonances on stressed beats"?

:cheers:

EDIT:

Quote:
Originally Posted by demonofthenight
I heard some chromatic lines in there, which sounds great. I also heard some andrew lloyd webber and beethoven in there :p:.

:D

Myung-trucci 01-08-2009 01:37 AM

I have a link to a piece I wrote in my sig, it's sort of progressive in terms of influence but not much technical playing or odd time usage. It's not that great, I put it on T and C a while ago, just wanted some input from you guys, so yeah, GP5, GP4 and MIDI in my sig.

GoldenGuitar 01-08-2009 01:46 AM

My composition is titled Sleeping Patterns, it's a Classical solo piece and is highly influenced by my experience in classical.

It's in the key of A major, I was going to modulate to F# minor or E major but I couldn't find a way for it to work.

Since I don't have guitar pro, I saved it a graphic file from Sibelius. You can listen to the recording on my profile.

SG Man Forever 01-08-2009 01:48 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by demonofthenight
BTW, guys, I'm mostly analysing/critiquing the starts of songs more than the ends. Just cause I'm lazy.There's alot of minor seventh harmonic intervals on strong beats in your song. Generally most guys avoid that.

Normally on strong beats (first beat of the bar) you'd want to keep all harmonic intervals as either third, sixths, Perfect fifths or octaves (the last two can be used, but should be avoided). Perfect fourths also, but not between the bass and the second lowest part.

Any reason for that, other than it simply isn't common? I mean, as far as the seventh thing goes, it's part of the main chord progression, and TBH, "dissonant" is the last word I would use to describe this song. It's pretty much all harmony.

one vision 01-08-2009 01:50 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenGuitar
My composition is titled Sleeping Patterns, it's a Classical solo piece and is highly influenced by my experience in classical.

It's in the key of A major, I was going to modulate to F# minor or E major but I couldn't find a way for it to work.

Since I don't have guitar pro, I saved it a graphic file from Sibelius. You can listen to the recording on my profile.

Beatiful. I like it a lot.

Very nocturnesque. What kind of classical is it influenced by in particular?

Give my piece a listen if you got time, it's also classical, link in sig. :)

And also, modulating to the relative minor would be pretty easy imo. In the middle of a Major progression, I throw in the Major dominant of the relative minor, and it sounds very powerful.

:cheers:

20Tigers 01-08-2009 01:55 AM

I can't listen to guitar pro files :( I tried the demo and didn't like it. I'm not paying for it and I'm not a thief so oh well.

Freepower I followed the link. It was a cool riff. Didn't care much for the synthesizers in that one and overall I think the sound quality didn't do your skills much justice. It sounded kind of tinny and lacking in punch you need some big booming Daft Punk bass drum to liven it up.

The Destroy the World Gentlemens Club in your profile on the other hand - was really awesome!! And the Fall out Tactics was cool. Where'd you get that voice loop?

SG Man Forever 01-08-2009 01:59 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenGuitar
My composition is titled Sleeping Patterns, it's a Classical solo piece and is highly influenced by my experience in classical.

It's in the key of A major, I was going to modulate to F# minor or E major but I couldn't find a way for it to work.

Since I don't have guitar pro, I saved it a graphic file from Sibelius. You can listen to the recording on my profile.

It sounds more folk-ish than classical to me, but still very good.

one vision 01-08-2009 02:01 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SG Man Forever
It sounds more folk-ish than classical to me, but still very good.

Yeah, I was gonna label it as "Chopin-esque", but frankly, I don't think there are enough accidentals :haha

demonofthenight 01-08-2009 02:12 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by one vision
Also, could you elaborate on the "dissonances on stressed beats"
In purely chordal music (like contemporary stuff), chord tones at the start of every bar. So the first note of every bar should be a chord tone.

In chordal based music, this rule can be avoided pretty easily just by changing the chord. Like, if you really must have a note that makes a sixth with the chord playing, just add a sixth to the accompaniment (so you now have a X6 chord).

In contrapuctual-esque music (classical, electronica, two voice songs and so on) you'd want the first note of every bar to make a sixth, third (prefered), fifth or octave with the other instruments playing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SG Man
Any reason for that, other than it simply isn't common? I mean, as far as the seventh thing goes, it's part of the main chord progression, and TBH, "dissonant" is the last word I would use to describe this song. It's pretty much all harmony.
Haha, I'm not insulting your peice. I actually like it, but it does need a little work.

Dissonance just means instability, it doesn't mean "bad." Dissonance is needed to keep your song moving, if your song is too consonant it will sound stale, sterile and stagnant. If your song is too dissonance, your song will sound instable.

The sevenths thing is inplace because it's too dissonant for a strongly stressed beat (the first note of every bar). This beat should also be very consonant.

It's not my rule, just something I picked up.

one vision 01-08-2009 02:18 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by demonofthenight
In purely chordal music (like contemporary stuff), chord tones at the start of every bar. So the first note of every bar should be a chord tone.

In chordal based music, this rule can be avoided pretty easily just by changing the chord. Like, if you really must have a note that makes a sixth with the chord playing, just add a sixth to the accompaniment (so you now have a X6 chord).

In contrapuctual-esque music (classical, electronica, two voice songs and so on) you'd want the first note of every bar to make a sixth, third (prefered), fifth or octave with the other instruments playing.

Those don't really apply :p:

I know what you mean though, I just didn't want to change time signatures, in case a time signature was needed. And some of them, I've played with fermatas and ceasuras which were not stated in GP. So yeah. It's played with a rubato-esque tempo in mind.

But thanks, I never knew about those other conventions.

:cheers:


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