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-   -   How to make 9th and 7th courds (http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=111417)

PychoArtRocker 06-24-2004 01:55 AM

How to make 9th and 7th courds
 
How do you make 9th and 7th courds. Ex:you make a C with C,E,G but how do you make that C a C7?

Burn in hell 06-24-2004 02:02 AM

add a note to the triad.

redwing_suck 06-24-2004 02:19 AM

^^ok.... shut up.

the basic chord beyond a triad goes: 1 3 5 7... now, alterations to each of those notes determines the chord name and type.... i'm assuming you know how to come up with the Cmajor scale, so let's go from there.

C D E F G A B

Cmajor triad (your basic C chord) = C E G... 1-3-5...
Cmaj7 (read "C major seven") = C E G B

that is your basic maj7 chord.

now, in your reference to "C7", that IS a seventh chord, but do not mistake it with a major or minor seventh chord.... it means C dominant 7, with the intervals 1 3 5 b7... close to your maj7 chord from above, but the seventh is lowered.... so C7 = C E G Bb....

i assume you know how to make a minor triad as well... 1 b3 5.... now, a minor seventh chord has the intervals 1 b3 5 b7... any chord with those intervals is a m7 (minor seventh, also seen as -7) chord.

a diminished seventh chord is 1 b3 b5 b7... AKA half diminished, fully diminished chord is 1 b3 b5 bb7.... but dont worry too much now about chords beyond major and minor sevenths.

the 9th chords go 1 step farther... know that 2=9, 4=11, and 6=13.....

so a maj9 chord would have the intervals of 1 3 5 7 9.... Cmaj9 = C E G B D.... minor 9th chords are 1 b3 5 b7 9.... same as your minor seventh chords, except with that 9 on the end.... it is not flat like, say, the 3rd and the 7th, because in your basic minor scale (mostly aeolian, sometimes dorian scales) the 2nd (9th) is natural, so it is left that way in the chord....

so, you go from triads (1-3-5) to tetrads (1-3-5-7) to 9th chords (1-3-5-7-9).... it's all built up in order like that (but dont assume a maj7 chord HAS to be in that order on your guitar.... it usually wont be like that, maybe 1-5-1-3-7-9 or a variation on that, however it is still a maj9 chord either way).

adding 2nds and 4ths and 6ths without building them up in the exact order makes them "add" tones.... a 1-3-5-2 chord would be a major triad with an "add 2" or "(2)".... but that goes more into naming chords than chord construction.... so, try not to be confused by that.

now, if you went in the order of 1-3-5-7-9(2)-11(4)-6(13) on a chord, although not possible on a guitar, would be a maj13 chord.... typically on guitar you'll see it stacked 1-3-5-7-13... it's assumed it's a maj13. but that's your basic order of tones.... 1 3 5 7 9 11 13.... in that order of "strengths" as it is called. notice: seven tones, and there are seven notes in a (diatonic) scale... the order of strengths tells you how the order of the "power" of each tone in the scale to give the chord its characteristics..... obviously the root is first, the third is next (cause it determines major/minor), then the fifth (determines diminished or not), then the seventh (determines dominance)... then the add tones, really only "flavor notes" when you use them separately (they serve the same purpose in both scale playing, like in a solo, and chord playing, like in a rhythm.... this is where one begins to see that chords and scales are the exact same thing).

once again...

triads: (should know these first)
maj = 1-3-5
min = 1-b3-5
dim = 1-b3-b5
aug = 1-3-#5

tetrads (7ths):
maj7 = 1-3-5-7
m7 = 1-b3-5-b7
dom7 (like "C7") = 1-3-5-b7
m7b5 (half diminished) = 1-b3-b5-b7
(there are others, but dont worry for now...)

9ths:
maj9 = 1-3-5-7-9
m9 = 1-b3-5-b7-9

just learn what notes you use to build up the extensions, dont worry so much about the names yet.

any questions? you know the drill...


redwing:cheers:

Junkstuff1 06-24-2004 10:29 AM

Dominant 9th is implied by a "9" after the root. So a C9 is a dominant 7th chord with a 9 - C E G Bb D. Besides (fully) diminished, I think you can turn any 7th chord into a 9th chord just by adding a 9, and then call it by the same "modifier" name (i.e. major, minor, dominant).

I think diminished 9th would be 1 b3 b5 bb7 bb9. The 9 there is the same as an 8, which is the same as the root, so it's just stupid to call it a diminished 9th rather than a diminished 7th.

Daveo 06-24-2004 01:43 PM

The extensions can be made by adding M3 or m3 intervals onto a major or minor triad.

Major:
1 3 5
add on....

a: M3 - 1 3 5 7 - Maj7

b: m3 - 1 3 5 b7 - Dominant

a)add onto Maj7....

M3 - 1 3 5 7 9 - Maj9
m3 - 1 3 5 7 b9 - Maj7b9

b)add onto Dominant....

M3 - 1 3 5 b7 9 - 9
m3 - 1 3 5 b7 b9 - 7b9


And then you add M3 and m3s onto those and then the next! AND THEN THEY'RE DIFFERENT FOR MINOR, DIMINISHED AND AUGMENTED TRIADS!!!!!

God damn, there's too many chords! :p:

That's the main idea. Just add intervals onto triads.

I wonder if there's people who know all the chords possible.....That'd be sweeeeet....

I found a <a href=http://chrisjuergensen.com.hosting.domaindirect.com/chordformula.htm>good site</a>, with most if not all(I don't know) the chord formulas. If you don't understand the formulas and stuff, you need to read up on your theory. You'll find a load of useful sites on the net.

redwing_suck 06-24-2004 02:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Daveo
I wonder if there's people who know all the chords possible.....That'd be sweeeeet....
i think all you have to know is how to make them and then you know it all....

Daveo 06-24-2004 02:38 PM

Ok, know OFF, smarty-pants! :p:

EDIT: Was the stuff I said correct, yeah? I'm sure I just made most of it up! :p:

SilentDeftone 06-24-2004 05:50 PM

Yeah, it seems correct to me. But redwing's explanation owned it. :cheers:

Daveo 06-24-2004 06:34 PM

^
Blow me! :p:

redwing_suck 06-24-2004 07:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Daveo
^
Blow me! :p:
pick a spot...i'll be using :o <--this mouth, :p: <--this tongue...;) lol....

<marquee>CREEPY!!...</marquee>

so.... no word yet from psycoartrocker on whether or not he understood all this.... hmmm. i await him patiently.


redwing:cheers:

SilentDeftone 06-24-2004 07:48 PM

LoL. How about you blow the guy in your profile (what the hell is with that dude anyways?) and then shave his fake sideburns :p:

I don't think he'll have any questions, you two covered just about everything.

scheck006 06-24-2004 08:32 PM

redwing, that post did own ;)
um I think all he needs to know is the basic triads and then the rules of adding notes...like for all the extentions you need to have the notes below it...

I don't think anyone put it as simple as this, but i'll do it anyways..

you have major chord

1-3-5

you have 7 chord

1-3-5-b7

you have 9 chord

1-3-5-b7-9

you have 11 chord

1-3-5-b7-9-11

for all the extenstions you have to add the previous extenstions.

so if you have a 13 chord...

you need the major triad, plus the 7, 9, 11 and then the 13

SilentDeftone 06-24-2004 08:35 PM

However, that (1 3 5 b7 9 11 13) adds up to 7 strings. If you don't have a 7-stringer, you can safely omit the 5th.

redwing_suck 06-24-2004 08:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SilentDeftone
However, that (1 3 5 b7 9 11 13) adds up to 7 strings. If you don't have a 7-stringer, you can safely omit the 5th.
you could really omit any tone as long as your bassist knew what he was doing....

Quote:
LoL. How about you blow the guy in your profile (what the hell is with that dude anyways?) and then shave his fake sideburns
lol what now? me not understand...

SilentDeftone 06-24-2004 09:06 PM

Whoops, I meant guy in his avatar.

Anyways earlier there was a thread in the Pit which had a poll about whether some of his hair was fake or not (drawn on using computer technology). The poll (when I saw it) was about 20 to 1 that it was fake.

I read somewhere that it was safest to omit the 5th, but yeah you could omit almost any of them.

redwing_suck 06-24-2004 09:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SilentDeftone
I read somewhere that it was safest to omit the 5th, but yeah you could omit almost any of them.
oh, yes, defintiely safest to omit the 5th... sometimes you'll se a no3rd chord, but that's really out of pure necessity, and the omition of the seventh is.... erm, well it would make the tones beyond them "adds", unless the bass played such a large role in giving the 7th tone under the chord playing... no root would be fine, since the rest of the scale is given, and it's pretty easy to determine the scale in a chord when 6 of the 7 tones are given... yay, there i go again:

<marquee>SCALES ARE CHORDS! YES!</marquee>






oooo oo oooo, i made some changes to my massive post up over yonder.... one might notice the added text beyond the second bold part... teehee....


redwing:cheers:

scheck006 06-24-2004 09:14 PM

or if you had a keyboard player you could get away with playing just major and minor chords. lol

PychoArtRocker 06-24-2004 09:53 PM

My guitar teacher expained it today so i kinda get it. I was talking to a friend about music thery and he say this "oh i could learn it like that,math in it,hahaha what like 2+2. :haha he also sayed music thery is like reading comic books :haha . Man i need new friends.

redwing_suck 06-24-2004 10:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by PychoArtRocker
he also sayed music thery is like reading comic books :haha . Man i need new friends.
yes... extremely intellectual, nerdy, deep, and insightful comic books.... mmm hmm.... indeed.

****ing comic books. what the hell.

Junkstuff1 06-25-2004 02:06 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by redwing_suck
no root would be fine


Eh? Unless there's somebody else playing the root, taking it out completely changes the chord. Chord names reflect the tonal center. When you take it away, the tonal center changes, and therefore does the chord name, so omitting the root results in the wrong chord.


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