UG Community @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com

UG Community @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com (http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/index.php)
-   Site Suggestions (http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=65)
-   -   Blocked tabs (http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1420282)

eosteric 03-10-2011 10:09 AM

Blocked tabs
 
I was wondering, why does this website comply with MPA/NMPA's ludicrous notion that guitar tabs, in essence describing how to play a song, is copyright infringement?

You do realize that they don't actually make the law? Just because they say it is copyright infringement, does not mean it is. They have to take that to the court and get a verdict and pass a law.

This website of all, should have more integrity and not bow down to these crooks.

Garci 03-11-2011 11:35 PM

This site pays a bunch of fees just so they can keep their tabs online. In case you didn't notice, this is not some indie site who will post a handful of tabs to "have more integrity". We're talking about a website turning 13 years old, with a massive user base and hundreds of thousands of tabs.

The website doesn't think that guitar tabs are copyright infringement. If they did, you wouldn't be able to have a single tab on the site. There are a few tabs which are blocked - Dethklok comes to mind, which bothered me as well, but they did post a formal complaint to have their tabs taken down from the site.

So this is a page which plays by the rules. Which, massive as it is, would be stupid if it didn't. It wouldn't survive past the first week of cutting ties with legality. And no user, despite theoretically being able to save every tab, would be hard pressed to upload them again to a site which can handle the bandwidth that UG does.

So that's the price. You get an incredible bunch of tabs, but some of them are blocked. Big fucking deal. I'd say this site has an amazing amount of integrity being able to provide tabs whereas others have just ceased to exist, playing its cards well. That's pretty much all there is to it.

:peace:

eosteric 03-12-2011 05:04 AM

"It wouldn't survive past the first week of cutting ties with legality."

Uhm, Piratebay is still up and they're hosting a lot more than tabs.

UG are just pussies.

Garci 03-12-2011 10:31 AM

You do mean outside of paying over 3 million euros in fines and shutting down their tracker, don't you? Besides, no one is forcing you to get your tabs from this site full of "pussies", as you name us. You're more than free to go ahead and get your tabs in that lovely indie site of yours which has much more tabs than this and "sticks it up to the man".

Oh wait, sorry, such a site doesn't exist. My bad.

Really, you aren't paying a single cent to access this site. And you're actually complaining that the people running this site are paying so that they can keep the site up. For free. Available 24/7. On a scale that other tab websites don't even dream of. That's what you call being a pussy?

Lemoninfluence 03-12-2011 11:27 AM

tabs can count as an adaptation of a work and thus can be counted as copyright infringement in many jurisdictions.

UG will have consulted a lawyer before taking these actions and any lawyer worth their salt will have told them that they're likely to be held liable for copyright infringement if they don't comply.

So it's not a case of the MPA or whoever thinking they can make the law, it's more a case of the law is pretty shit and the website would have to comply if it wants to continue existing. Especially as, as part of the ToS, the applicable law is US law (specifically Californian jurisdiction).

IanC89 03-12-2011 11:28 AM

I am quite disappointed by this though.

Last week, I could access tabs for David Bowie, and now I cannot.

I have been using U-G for countless years (but getting on for at least 8).

One reason U-G has a large user base is precisely because of the amount of tabs they handle, but if access to them is going to become limited, it is not going to promote the site.

Is there somewhere with some sort of official notice about which tabs are blocked, the reason behind why etc? This is the first time I have come across it and I have no idea how long it has been occurring, but as I said, for David Bowie, it has to have happen in the past week or so.

Zebadee 03-12-2011 02:07 PM

I'm finding a lot of the blocked tabs on other sites.. They manage ok, UG has had its day methinks.

Zebadee 03-12-2011 02:22 PM

Actually that been said blaming UG is not the right thing to do.. They afterall have to comply with certain legal criteria.. The blame has to land on music publishers here.. Do the users of UG use these tablatures for financial gain? Do they spend hours writing tabs in order to 'steal' music? Or do they, like me, simply want to learn and play some of their favourite tunes by their favourite artists? Whichever way you look at it it is the record industry been petty and shitting on their core fanbase from a great height.. I have to wonder if the musicians involved, the songwriters, would actually mind their songs been placed on a site like UG, specially when it aids people actually learning the guitar and therefore is good for the future of music itself....

imfsimon 03-12-2011 02:55 PM

Hi..
Take this for example
http://tabs.ultimate-guitar.com/e/e...tonight_crd.htm
it's Eric Clapton's song, wonderful tonight.. and I get this message..
This tablature contains content from a third party publisher and has
been blocked by the Music Publishers Association in your country.

Would like to inform those unaware that:
1. this isn't a tablature, it's the chords
2. under the current law (no matter which country) chord progressions cannot be copyrighted!!! (its only logical as there are at least 100 other songs with the same chords.. that would be like copyrighting the ABC and filing lawsuits against everyone who uses them in typing)
3. the lyrics under the chords might be subject to copyright, but as long as the author is credited for it they can be freely posted.

Hope this will be taken in consideration next time anyone chooses to block chords... :)
Cheers

Lemoninfluence 03-12-2011 03:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by imfsimon
3. the lyrics under the chords might be subject to copyright, but as long as the author is credited for it they can be freely posted.

not really.

Whilst the end user may be using the infringing material in a way that's outlined in fair usage provisions, UG is hosting them on a commercial basis meaning that the hosting itself is an infringement.

imfsimon 03-12-2011 04:09 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemoninfluence
not really.

Whilst the end user may be using the infringing material in a way that's outlined in fair usage provisions, UG is hosting them on a commercial basis meaning that the hosting itself is an infringement.


Why wouldn't this qualify for fair use?.. Imo it goes under teaching no?.. I wouldn't see why anyone would check for tabs / chords who doesn't want to learn how to play them..
and isn't UG a free website?.. they do have ads to cover their costs but user registration and use is free, they aren't actually selling the tabs.
I agree that the fair use scenario isn't THAT obvious and it's prolly better to get permission but anyway like I said it's only the lyrics..

Anyway doesn't it make you mad that music publishers want to make money even from stuff like this?.. :P the law is kinda crappy in some ways indeed... :)
It's annoying enough that my youtube cover vids get flagged :P now even chords.. :D

Cheers

Lemoninfluence 03-12-2011 04:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by imfsimon
Why wouldn't this qualify for fair use?.. Imo it goes under teaching no?.. I wouldn't see why anyone would check for tabs / chords who doesn't want to learn how to play them..
and isn't UG a free website?.. they do have ads to cover their costs but user registration and use is free, they aren't actually selling the tabs.
I agree that the fair use scenario isn't THAT obvious and it's prolly better to get permission but anyway like I said it's only the lyrics..


as I said, the end user is using the tabs for education but UG is using them for a commercial purpose. The fact that the revenue doesn't come directly from the tabs is irrelevant.

And it's not that the chords are copyrighted, it's the music that's copyrighted and the chords are an adaptation of that music. Although the alphabet cannot be copyrighted individually, a book made up of words consisting of letters from that alphabet can be copyrighted.

Think of notes as letters, chords as words and songs as books.

Quote:
Anyway doesn't it make you mad that music publishers want to make money even from stuff like this?.. :P the law is kinda crappy in some ways indeed... :)
It's annoying enough that my youtube cover vids get flagged :P now even chords.. :D

Cheers

yeah it does. It's got to the point where copyright is about wealth generation rather than encouraging people to create artistic works.

Colohue 03-13-2011 09:08 AM

Legally, they are an existing representation of copyrighted material, which makes them copywrited material.

You can call UG whatever names you want. If you don't like it, run your own website for tabs and see how long it is before you get sued for infringement. Instead of doing that, you're choosing to waste your time bitching and whining because you can't find a tab you want.

Try learning to play the song without it.

Instead of complaining about what isn't there, be thankful of what is. The UG legal department works damned hard, just like everybody else in the Office, and they know better than you do what their website can and can not do.

rko 03-13-2011 02:58 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colohue
You can call UG whatever names you want. If you don't like it, run your own website for tabs and see how long it is before you get sued for infringement. Instead of doing that, you're choosing to waste your time bitching and whining because you can't find a tab you want.

Try learning to play the song without it.



What a great way to look at the situation.
I'll come to the site to look for tabs for songs, but once I can't access the tabs i'll just go ahead and learn the song myself.
Yes we are wasting our time by complaining in the 'Site Feedback' section. I was a fool to think that we are supposed to post problems here.

Colohue 03-13-2011 03:27 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by rko
What a great way to look at the situation.
I'll come to the site to look for tabs for songs, but once I can't access the tabs i'll just go ahead and learn the song myself.
Yes we are wasting our time by complaining in the 'Site Feedback' section. I was a fool to think that we are supposed to post problems here.


Consider how a complaint is given.

imfsimon for example has given a helpful piece of Feedback that the Office will find helpful.

eosteric has been nothing short of insulting and childish.

One was the target of my post, the other was not.

oldpink 03-14-2011 10:44 AM

its not UG's fault, there only complying with the law to keep the site open

there is a way around this issue for now this by using a proxy server like this one
http://www.hiddensurffreely.com/
simply go to that site and enter www.ultimate-guitar.com and then get the tab / chords you want
Oh and its free

Seth Shadows 03-14-2011 11:25 AM

^Really? Just get a VPN. :rolleyes:

pbking 03-22-2011 11:50 AM

Common For F sake Music Industry now im def gonna downloade massive amounts of music online.. for F sake cant get tabs anymore what is this frikking world becoming...

JackalUK 03-22-2011 12:17 PM

That seems a wholly unreasonable approach to the situation. The UG office is working to re-obtain the licenses needed to display the tabs online. All the red tape takes a while to clear.

cookiemonsterbo 03-23-2011 10:09 AM

as i cant just hop on a plane, are the blocks global? or country specific?


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:31 AM.

Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.