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-   -   How can I learn what notes fit with what key? (http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1557561)

andykndr 08-16-2012 10:55 PM

How can I learn what notes fit with what key?
 
Take this song for instance - - I know he's been playing for years, and I haven't even been playing for a year, but what I don't understand is how he knew which notes to hit in order to play such a beautiful song, not to mention playing it fast and clean.

What I'm asking is, how can i learn to do the stuff that guitar soloists do, hitting a bunch of different notes, that sound good together, and doing it quickly. Will learning scales help? Any tips will be greatly appreciated!

Kevin Saale 08-16-2012 11:07 PM

Start with scales, then some basic music theory will teach you what scales in what key go with what chord progressions.

llBlackenedll 08-17-2012 10:59 AM

Interesting choice of song to ask about note choice - to me the most compelling feature was the odd rhythms all the way through. It's rhythmically bonkers. While I realise I haven't answered your question... cheers for linking that, it was an interesting listen.

Mortiz 08-17-2012 11:03 AM

If you want a crash course in music theory check this out:

http://www.8notes.com/theory/

It's quite nice as it has flash animations.

Hydra150 08-17-2012 11:14 AM

http://www.musictheory.net/ - website with music theory lessons

The Crusade - music theory articles, written for guitarists

Also, this thread should go in MT.

steven seagull 08-17-2012 11:22 AM

okay okay, I'll move it!

Stop hassling me man...

Sn@il! 08-17-2012 12:12 PM

Scales, Arpeggios and other music theory will really help you with this. Also, get expierence with improvising and how to use accidentals.

Also: learn to play that song, and find out in what key it is and witch scale is used. (and witch accidentals, but that's hard if you just started doing this)

I think this is enough to begin with choosing right notes to play.

Here are some useful links:

http://jguitar.com - Here you can find most of the scales you want + extra stuff. :)

http://www.musictheory.net/ - Common music theory

http://www.myguitarsolo.com/ - Find out what techniques famous guitarist use, also scales and cool licks and shit

MaggaraMarine 08-17-2012 03:09 PM

Ear training.

/thread

sixsrtingsunder 08-23-2012 07:37 PM

You are asking the same question i think every guitarist asks at first. This is how I did it. Tune to standard,(at least at first). Learn the 7 modes in theee note per string fasion two octaves at a time. Cover all six strings with each mode. There are 7. Learn these as shapes. The key here is to think of them
like jig saw puzzle peices. They will fit together that way across the neck. Their names are: Ionian, dorian, phrygian, lydian, mixolydian, aeolian, and locrian. When you can play them all in order comfortably, youll start to see a bigger shape. This is the key. There are twelve frets. There are 12 keys. All you do is move the shape of the key where it fits the best for your riff. Its still the same shape just moved to a diff. fret. Its the same thing when you play a Dmin chord then move that shape up two frets... now you have an Emin chord. Go now and get tabs from your favorite player research how he/she uses the keys and mode it should start to become obvious about now.

griffRG7321 08-23-2012 07:38 PM

All notes fit in all the keys.

sixsrtingsunder 08-23-2012 07:39 PM

You are asking the same question i think every guitarist asks at first. This is how I did it. Tune to standard,(at least at first). Learn the 7 modes in theee note per string fasion two octaves at a time. Cover all six strings with each mode. There are 7. Learn these as shapes. The key here is to think of them like jig saw puzzle peices. They will fit together that way across the neck. Their names are: Ionian, dorian, phrygian, lydian, mixolydian, aeolian, and locrian. When you can play them all in order comfortably, youll start to see a bigger shape. This is the key. There are twelve frets. There are 12 keys. All you do is move the shape of the key where it fits the best for your riff. Its still the same shape just moved to a diff. fret. Its the same thing when you play a Dmin chord then move that shape up two frets... now you have an Emin chord. Go now and get tabs from your favorite player research how he/she uses the keys and mode it should start to become obvious about now.

HotspurJr 08-23-2012 07:54 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixsrtingsunder
You are asking the same question i think every guitarist asks at first. This is how I did it. Tune to standard,(at least at first). Learn the 7 modes in theee note per string fasion two octaves at a time.


I don't like this advice because it appears that you're using the mode names to refer to different scale positions on the neck. I think this is a bad way to learn the fretboard. I much prefer a CAGED-system approach. You don't want somebody thinking that they're playing in Aeolian just because they're using a position that has the sixth as the lowest note.

There are two parts of the answer to the OPs question.

The first is to study theory. While MusicTheory.net is good, as free resources go, I actually think a good intro book on theory (I like Shroeder and Wyatt's "Harmony and Theory") is a better approach. The good news is that theory really isn't that hard. However - theory isn't particularly meaningful if you can't also hear it, so it's important to combine your study of theory with ear training. Download the functional ear trainer from miles.be and use it.

The second part is the application of theory to the guitar. For this, I recommend "The Guitar Fretboard Workbook" which uses the CAGED system to teach you the entire fretboard. This has an advantage over using mode names in that it avoids confusing terminology. In the past 20 years the CAGED system has really become the dominant system for learning the whole fretboard. It seems to be how nearly everyone is learning these days.

sixsrtingsunder 08-23-2012 08:30 PM

You are asking the same question i think every guitarist asks at first. This is how I did it. Tune to standard,(at least at first). Learn the 7 modes in theee note per string fasion two octaves at a time. Cover all six strings with each mode. There are 7. Learn these as shapes. The key here is to think of them
like jig saw puzzle peices. They will fit together that way across the neck. Their names are: Ionian, dorian, phrygian, lydian, mixolydian, aeolian, and locrian. When you can play them all in order comfortably, youll start to see a bigger shape. This is the key. There are twelve frets. There are 12 keys. All you do is move the shape of the key where it fits the best for your riff. Its still the same shape just moved to a diff. fret. Its the same thing when you play a Dmin chord then move that shape up two frets... now you have an Emin chord. Go now and get tabs from your favorite player research how he/she uses the keys and mode it should start to become obvious about now.

Hail 08-23-2012 08:39 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixsrtingsunder
You are asking the same question i think every guitarist asks at first. This is how I did it. Tune to standard,(at least at first). Learn the 7 modes in theee note per string fasion two octaves at a time. Cover all six strings with each mode. There are 7. Learn these as shapes. The key here is to think of them
like jig saw puzzle peices. They will fit together that way across the neck. Their names are: Ionian, dorian, phrygian, lydian, mixolydian, aeolian, and locrian. When you can play them all in order comfortably, youll start to see a bigger shape. This is the key. There are twelve frets. There are 12 keys. All you do is move the shape of the key where it fits the best for your riff. Its still the same shape just moved to a diff. fret. Its the same thing when you play a Dmin chord then move that shape up two frets... now you have an Emin chord. Go now and get tabs from your favorite player research how he/she uses the keys and mode it should start to become obvious about now.


get out

spike4379 08-23-2012 10:58 PM

well i would say learn all the notes of the frettboard before you look up shapes because of what im about to say.
learn your sharps in keys and flats.
they go like this.
F(ather) C(ristmas) G(ets) D(iarrhoeal) A(fter) E(ating) B(iscuits) <sharps in their key order.
flats > B(oys) E(at) A(ll) D(ay) G(irls) C(ook) F(ood)
now thats handy if you can do two things; 1 memorise the rhymes 2 when you know you have to solo in G major and they key for that is 1 sharp [F(ather)] so you can play any natural note on the guitar except F, you have to play F#. the only other thing that would help along those lines if you so choose to go that way is learn how many sharps or flats are in a key. what i do is pretty easy. when you look at a flat key signature lets say Bb, if you look at the flats rhyme we can find out how many flats it has this way " the second last flat in a flat key signature is the actual key" having said that we add the first flat from the rhyme Bb then Eb and you have it. play every natural note except Bb and Eb. sharps are almost the same. the last sharp in a key signature is the leading tone in the key (the last note in the scale) so for Gmajor which if we look at the sharps rhyme we see F(ather) is first and the only note after an F# is a G so play like i said about gmajor before. probably not helpful in your situation but thats what broke the ice for me and opened my eye in major scale key identification

those work for all major keys, only thing is the key of F which is just 1 flat Bb, the rhyme for that is" what do you do when you get 1 flat (tire on a car) you say F"

91RG350 08-24-2012 03:53 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by spike4379
well i would say learn all the notes of the frettboard...

Great advice....how did you do it? TS could learn from your experience

spike4379 08-24-2012 10:42 AM

ahh now its a real pain in the ass, but once you know the music scale, start from open bottom E and just go up 1 frett and make sure you know what each frett note is. joe satriani had this fantastic exersize that makes you learn it no problem, get a metronome and set it to something dreadfully slow say 40 bpm and on every crotchet beat play 1 seperate E and go up each octave across all the strings, but dont just go oh im gonna practice E, oh now F then F#, jump up randomly from say E to G# or Db. once you do that your pretty much a free man

Dodeka 08-24-2012 01:06 PM

A key is named for its tonic triad, not a particular collection of notes beyond those in that triad. You can associate a key with a particular major or minor scale, but you can play all sorts of notes outside of that scale and still be in key.

Captaincranky 08-24-2012 01:22 PM

Learn what notes are in all Keys.....!!! They'll all fit at one point or another in the song.

Are we playing, "Jeopardy", or am I on, "Candid Camera"?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodeka
A key is named for its tonic triad, not a particular collection of notes beyond those in that triad. You can associate a key with a particular major or minor scale, but you can play all sorts of notes outside of that scale and still be in key.
Right on bro...! Play whatever you feel like playing..!! I say we do away with key signatures altogether! Just chord symbols over the words or a tab, that's where it's at.

Withorwithout 08-24-2012 01:48 PM

What does "TS" and "OP" mean by the way, i see them all over the place. And maybe some more i dont remember.


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