UG Community @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com

UG Community @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com (http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/index.php)
-   Musician Talk (http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=8)
-   -   C Lydian Starting On G (http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1565670)

TheAscendant 10-01-2012 12:17 AM

C Lydian Starting On G
 
Hello! I'm currently composing a song with a bridge using these four chords:

---3---0---1---0---
---3---3---1---1---
---4---0---2---0---
---5---4---3---2---
---5---5---3---3---
---3---5---1---3---

These are Gmaj, Dmaj, Fmaj and Cmaj chords I believe. As I will be also using these chords as the base for my solo, I was wondering what scales I could use over them.
From some minimal research I found the notes in these chords to relate to C Lydian.
Other than that I have no idea as my musical theory does not extend this far. If anyone
could give me some ideas and tips on this, I would be extremely thankful. (:

Cheers.

Hail 10-01-2012 12:23 AM


TheAscendant 10-01-2012 12:24 AM

wuut

Hail 10-01-2012 12:25 AM

just pretend it's c major with an F# as an accidental over the D

please

W4RP1G 10-01-2012 12:29 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAscendant
Other than that I have no idea as my musical theory does not extend this far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAscendant
wuut

The general consensus seems to be that if you don't have a very strong grasp on advanced music theory, then you shouldn't be thinking about modes. Idk, I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to theory, but that's my understanding.

Hail 10-01-2012 12:40 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by W4RP1G
The general consensus seems to be that if you don't have a very strong grasp on advanced music theory, then you shouldn't be thinking about modes. Idk, I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to theory, but that's my understanding.


no, you shouldn't think about modes at all. you could be fucking bach and i'd tell you to just learn what accidentals are and write music as music rather than arithmetic.

music theory is descriptive, not prescriptive, and looking for filler answers and ideas (read: scales and "modes") without being able to analyze an entire context (read: make music and use your ears) will only lead you down a painful path.

take your progression, TS, and just write with your ears for a bit. saying "these 7 notes are okay to use" is like giving a man a fish, but it's absolutely a waste of time in the long-run.

TheAscendant 10-01-2012 12:41 AM

Does it matter that I'm using an F major chord?

TheAscendant 10-01-2012 12:43 AM

@Hail
So...write whatever sounds good to my ears?

chronowarp 10-01-2012 12:57 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAscendant
Hello! I'm currently composing a song with a bridge using these four chords:

---3---0---1---0---
---3---3---1---1---
---4---0---2---0---
---5---4---3---2---
---5---5---3---3---
---3---5---1---3---

These are Gmaj, Dmaj, Fmaj and Cmaj chords I believe. As I will be also using these chords as the base for my solo, I was wondering what scales I could use over them.
From some minimal research I found the notes in these chords to relate to C Lydian.
Other than that I have no idea as my musical theory does not extend this far. If anyone
could give me some ideas and tips on this, I would be extremely thankful. (:

Cheers.

G - G B D
D - D F# A
F - F A C
C- C E G

G A B C D E F F# G

No "one" scale is going to fit all these chords. Why don't you think about what scale fits most of the chords, then think about what note needs to change over the one chord that doesnt fit.

Play G major. Change your F#'s to F naturals over the F major.

mattrusso 10-01-2012 01:00 AM

First of all, I don't know what that second chord is, but it's definitely not D major. That G in there is a real problem if you want it to be heard as a D major chord. How did you come up with that structure? The only way I can analyze it is as some strange A Dorian modal voicing or as a polychord (assuming there's a bass playing the root underneath).

Aside from that, the very presence of the note "F" takes away the most important element of the Lydian sound: the #4. In C Lydian, that defining note would be F#; the presence of F (natural 4) takes C Lydian out of the question.

The fact is that there is no one scale that will fit all those chords. The main reason for this is the fact that you have (or at least try to have) a D major triad and an F major triad. Since the D triad has F# in it and the F triad has F natural, you're going to have to shift your pitch collection at some point.

chronowarp 10-01-2012 01:02 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattrusso
First of all, I don't know what that second chord is, but it's definitely not D major. That G in there is a real problem if you want it to be heard as a D major chord. How did you come up with that structure? The only way I can analyze it is as some strange A Dorian modal voicing or as a polychord (assuming there's a bass playing the root underneath).

Aside from that, the very presence of the note "F" takes away the most important element of the Lydian sound: the #4. In C Lydian, that defining note would be F#; the presence of F (natural 4) takes C Lydian out of the question.

The fact is that there is no one scale that will fit all those chords. The main reason for this is the fact that you have (or at least try to have) a D major triad and an F major triad. Since the D triad has F# in it and the F triad has F natural, you're going to have to shift your pitch collection at some point.

You could call it Dadd9add11. Either way it's definitely a D major chord at its core.

This definitely isn't Lydian, it's just a typical bVII borrowed chord...which adds some nice old timey flavor to the progression...a good opportunity to inject a bluesy G penta lick.

mattrusso 10-01-2012 01:05 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by chronowarp
You could call it Dadd9add11.

There's no such thing as a major chord with a natural 11. The minor 2nd rub between the natural 3 and the natural 4/"11" makes it totally harmonically ambiguous, at least to my ears (and to most, if not all modern music theorists).

That's not to say you shouldn't play it; if you like it, play it. Just know that it's not what you thought it was and it's gonna function in a different way.

chronowarp 10-01-2012 01:05 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAscendant
Does it matter that I'm using an F major chord?

If you like how it sounds, no it doesn't matter.
If you want to be able to explain why you chose it, then maybe that matters, but nobody gives a shit they just care about how it sounds.

chronowarp 10-01-2012 01:06 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattrusso
There's no such thing as a major chord with a natural 11. The minor 2nd rub between the natural 3 and the natural 4/"11" makes it totally harmonically ambiguous, at least to my ears (and to most, if not all modern music theorists).

That's not to say you shouldn't play it; if you like it, play it. Just know that it's not what you thought it was and it's gonna function in a different way.

Yes there is... lol.

Can't tell if srs...

TheAscendant 10-01-2012 01:06 AM

I could go with a Gmaj/Emin thing for the first three chords and then pretty much anything that would work over the Fmaj chord?

chronowarp 10-01-2012 01:07 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAscendant
I could go with a Gmaj/Emin thing for the first three chords and then pretty much anything that would work over the Fmaj chord?

Yes. But to make it easier on yourself, if you actually learned your scales correctly (you know where the scale degrees sit in each pattern) just lock onto avoiding the maj7 (F#) over that F...and instead play the note a half step lower and nothing else will have to change.

mattrusso 10-01-2012 01:10 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by chronowarp
Yes there is... lol.

Can't tell if srs...

No dude, major 11 literally doesn't exist. Read any number of books on modern music theory and they'll confirm this. A chord from a major chord scale CAN be sus4 (very different from 11), but then it can't contain the 3 (unless it's an octave up in the form of tension 10, and that's a pretty weird sound). You can have a major chord with #11 or a minor chord with natural 11, but major with natural 11 is an incorrect and misleading way to represent pretty much anything.

chronowarp 10-01-2012 01:12 AM

Nah, dude, it definitely exists.
Is it often neglected because the internal m2 can disrupt the function of the chord? Yes.

That doesn't mean it doesn't exist, hasn't been used, or can't be used. Sounds like you're just regurgitating 60's jazz rhetoric.

I think what you're trying to say is, "It's atypical to use a natural 11th extension on a major chord, because it creates a highly dissonant m2 interval between the 3rd & 11th, which can disrupt the function of the chord. Because of this Jazz musicians tend to raise the 4th to create a maj7#11."

I'd love to read a music theory book that forbids you from using a specific sonority, and claims it doesn't exist...please show me.

TheAscendant 10-01-2012 01:14 AM

This is going right over my head :L But if I choose to do the Gmaj/Emin thing over these chords, when it comes to playing the Fmaj in the progression, I avoid using the F# or I just flatten it? This makes the chord progression in Gmaj with an F accidental right?

chronowarp 10-01-2012 01:16 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAscendant
This is going right over my head :L But if I choose to do the Gmaj/Emin thing over these chords, when it comes to playing the Fmaj in the progression, I avoid using the F# or I just flatten it? This makes the chord progression in Gmaj with an F accidental right?

Just flatten it.

& Yes.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:52 AM.

Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.