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-   -   Where do I start with neoclassical? (http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1567120)

mtshark 10-10-2012 01:52 AM

Where do I start with neoclassical?
 
Lately I've started to really dig classical music, mostly stuff from the baroque period (Bach, Vivaldi, etc.) and I figured that I might enjoy playing in a similar style on guitar, so learning some neoclassical seemed like the most logical step to take. The problem is, I'm nowhere near at a technical level to play songs like Malmsteen or Jason Becker, so I'm on the lookout for some easier pieces to learn and just enjoy playing. (Note, I don't take lessons.) Does anyone have any suggestions for some beginning (neo)classical songs that I could learn? Thanks!

Geldin 10-10-2012 02:00 AM

A lot of neoclassical guitarists took their cues from Baroque artists and would often interpret sections or entire pieces by their favorite composers to form the basis of their own songs. Find some Vivaldi and Bach online (most of their music is in the public domain, if I remember right) and transpose it to guitar. I'm particularly fond of Vivaldi's Concerto in A minor, Bach's Partita n.2 in D minor, and Bach's Double Violin Concerto in D minor.

LightxGrenade 10-10-2012 05:34 AM

I agree with Geldin. I would also suggest you check out a guitarist named Andres Segovia. He's considered like the "grand-daddy" of classical music (though he also played a lot of Spanish style music as well) when it comes to being played on guitar and he does have renditions of Vivaldi, Bach.
Although he played all of his pieces on acoustic guitar, and finger picked it, it'll still give you an idea of how to play neoclassical stuff and it's certainly slower than Becker or Malmsteen's renditions (though depending on the type of guitarist you are, you might find it plenty interesting and challenging still, I sure did).
I also recommend, that you check out the tab here on UG of Malmsteen's rendition of Paganini Caprice no. 5 it's pretty accurate and you don't have to play it super fast for it to sound beautiful. It's definitely one of the more funner classical pieces IMO
here's a vid of a kid playing it slow to give you an idea.

Malchius 10-10-2012 05:55 AM

Classical guitar not music. He was born 70 years after the classical period ended. Also check out Jesu Joy of Man's Desiring the melody is quite simple to play without the bass.

Wesbanez 10-10-2012 06:27 AM

I often find that pieces written for Oboes and other wood wind instruments translate nicely to the guitar.

I remember learning the first 30 seconds of Marcello composition just for the lols and to impress the ladies with my fret wankery.

Can't remember what it was called but its a fairly staccato based piece that sounded great played with a light overdrive.

LightxGrenade 10-10-2012 06:34 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malchius
Classical guitar not music. He was born 70 years after the classical period ended. Also check out Jesu Joy of Man's Desiring the melody is quite simple to play without the bass.

I said he was the grand-daddy of playing classical pieces on guitar. Not many people were taking classical music and transposing it to guitar. I never said he lived in the classical period or that he was a composer from that time.

vayne92 10-10-2012 06:35 AM



Definitely not an easy piece, but also definitely not something like Malmsteen.

I learnt this quite some time ago and at the time it really helped me develop my technique. After all i just see it as one huge really awesome sounding guitar technique.

Geldin 10-10-2012 09:47 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by LightxGrenade
I agree with Geldin. I would also suggest you check out a guitarist named Andres Segovia. He's considered like the "grand-daddy" of classical music (though he also played a lot of Spanish style music as well) when it comes to being played on guitar and he does have renditions of Vivaldi, Bach.
Although he played all of his pieces on acoustic guitar, and finger picked it, it'll still give you an idea of how to play neoclassical stuff and it's certainly slower than Becker or Malmsteen's renditions (though depending on the type of guitarist you are, you might find it plenty interesting and challenging still, I sure did).

I wouldn't call Segovia neoclassical. TS is talking more about Baroque inspired shredders from the 80s. Segovia is worlds away, and I'd rate of a lot of his pieces as being tougher than Malmsteen or Becker's. In his prime, Segovia was doing things that would make those two want to put down the guitar.

CryogenicHusk 10-10-2012 10:08 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geldin
I wouldn't call Segovia neoclassical. TS is talking more about Baroque inspired shredders from the 80s. Segovia is worlds away, and I'd rate of a lot of his pieces as being tougher than Malmsteen or Becker's. In his prime, Segovia was doing things that would make those two want to put down the guitar.


I don't know if it's fair to compare such different styles... I'm no expert, but so far from my experience in classical and electric/rock, each has certain things that you don't have to worry about from the other.

Example: unlike rock guitar, classical is much more about how you bring out the sounds from the guitar with your right hand fingers than it is about moving those left hand fingers really fast. Both are extremely difficult in their own ways. On classical you don't have to worry about distortion (Which greatly increases unused string noise. I never got the "he covers his sloppiness with distortion" cause for me it's quite the opposite: I can play without distortion pretty ok, but with distortion on, I sound like ass), but you have to have a great ear and control so you can apply dynamics and sound good and not like a robot.

I agree, though. Segovia was certainly playing things that are not a good starting point for beginners for either style due to their difficulty and imho is comparable to starting to learn rock guitar by trying to take on Jason Becker songs.

Geldin 10-10-2012 10:28 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CryogenicHusk
I don't know if it's fair to compare such different styles... I'm no expert, but so far from my experience in classical and electric/rock, each has certain things that you don't have to worry about from the other.

I agree, though. Segovia was certainly playing things that are not a good starting point for beginners for either style due to their difficulty and imho is comparable to starting to learn rock guitar by trying to take on Jason Becker songs.

Personally, I've always found muting to be really easy, so I can crank the gain and still have clean technique. Consequently, most of the difficulty in neoclassical guitar is lost on me. On the other hand, I'm playing classical guitar right handed despite being a lefty, so the challenges of classical guitar are much more difficult for me. Just goes to show you that difficulty is relative to the player and what his strengths are.

CryogenicHusk 10-10-2012 10:48 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geldin
Just goes to show you that difficulty is relative to the player and what his strengths are.


Great point! I'm having the opposite problem... with classical in just like 2-3 months I had already surpassed my electric guitar skills, which I had been playing for 2.5 years. Doesn't say THAT much cause those were 2.5 years of sloppy playing, but still.

Right hand muting of unused strings never came naturally to me on the electric. It still doesn't. I feel I have to move my forearm too much to really get them strings to quiet down when I go from the lower strings to the higher strings. Proper bends and vibrato (the latter specifically on the electric. I get vibrato better the classical way) aren't very intuitive to me, with the whole "use your wrist" thing, so I'm also kinda struggling with getting used to proper technique with those. I've been struggling with the same Led Zep solo since I started to relearn with proper technique for quite a while already, lol, so I still don't dare take on neoclassical.

My right arm just feels much more comfortable playing classical, but maybe also because I've grown kind of unaccustomed to playing electric. For me, finger and arm relaxation just also comes much more easily and naturally when playing classical.

wiggedy 10-10-2012 05:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CryogenicHusk
Right hand muting of unused strings never came naturally to me on the electric. ...


I too had some trouble with RH muting, since "relearning with proper technique" and found using the thumb to be very comfortable for me, I learned it from watching Tom Hess on youtube. Using the thumb is becoming my preference, it seems easier to mute strings down hear the pick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CryogenicHusk
I've been struggling with the same Led Zep solo since I started to relearn with proper technique for quite a while ........


I too have struggled (probably for too long) with the same solo (La Grange for me). I am thinking about dumping it, at least for now, it seems to take up too much of my practice time, for little gain.

sorry if I got of topic here......

LightxGrenade 10-10-2012 05:54 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geldin
I wouldn't call Segovia neoclassical. TS is talking more about Baroque inspired shredders from the 80s. Segovia is worlds away, and I'd rate of a lot of his pieces as being tougher than Malmsteen or Becker's. In his prime, Segovia was doing things that would make those two want to put down the guitar.

I understand what you mean but I also think it depends on the skill set of the guitarist. I can't play Becker's rendition of a Paganini Caprice but I can play Segovia's rendition of Bach's Partita no. 3 in E major and the first minutes of Partita 2 in D Major.
But you're right, I wouldn't call Segovia neoclassical either, I just figured the TS would appreciate renditions of pieces by the composers he mentioned (Vivaldi, Bach). Though I should've stated that he was a classical guitarist who did renditions of classical pieces as it seems I caused a bit of confusion. I would compare it to runners. Being the best marathon runner or the best 100 meter dash runner both involve running but they're two totally different mindsets and require different skill sets.

CryogenicHusk 10-11-2012 06:25 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by wiggedy
I too had some trouble with RH muting, since "relearning with proper technique" and found using the thumb to be very comfortable for me, I learned it from watching Tom Hess on youtube. Using the thumb is becoming my preference, it seems easier to mute strings down hear the pick.



I too have struggled (probably for too long) with the same solo (La Grange for me). I am thinking about dumping it, at least for now, it seems to take up too much of my practice time, for little gain.

sorry if I got of topic here......



Led Zep's communication breakdown for me. Haven't attempted it in like 2 weeks. Been too busy learning classical stuff and this one, which isn't really classical, but still fingerpicked. I'm learning that last one for a wedding. Gotta say that a year ago, I would've never imagined that I'd be able to fingerpick like I do now. Heck, 6 months ago, I thought I'd be more comfortable playing an electric guitar piece at the wedding instead, because I thought "I'm much better at playing electric" but now it's the opposite: I feel mmore comfortable fingerpicking.


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