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-   -   Noobie Writer Seeking Wisom! :D (http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1573838)

ccrawf11 11-19-2012 10:48 PM

Noobie Writer Seeking Wisom! :D
 
Alright, hey guys! I've been playing guitar for a few years now, and I consider myself to be pretty good, I practice maybe 3 hours a day etc etc. But.. I have no idea how to write. I can read tab, some staff, I don't know THAT many chords. I want to start writing my own music and stop doing covers but the internet is just filled with loads of random stuff. If anyone could throw me some step by step instructions on where to start and how to work up to actually writing that'd be great. I know writing is based off scales, but there are a countless number of them and I have no idea which ones to know, or how to use a scale to make my own riff in general. I'm mostly interested in the metal genre. I like to play in Drop D or Drop C# (Db) so people with expertise in that area would probably be best here, but I need all the help I can get. Like I said before, I am a complete noob at this, so any advice what soever. Thanks in advance :>

wandering_taco 11-19-2012 11:44 PM

I suppose the process really is different for everyone. Do you have a specific sound you'd like to create? What inspires you?

I started playing guitar specifically to write music, I started attempting before I even learned other songs. It took me a couple years of learning other music while simultaneously writing riffs to actually start structuring things.

I've been playing for almost 4 years I think now and I just wrote my first metal song like 8 months ago or so. I suppose it may have taken so long because I completely disregard the verse/chorus/verse structure. I imagine that's probably easier, so you could try laying out a structure like that and then move on to actually fleshing it out.

One thing that helped me a lot was looking at bands whose sound I really like, analyzing what they do, and using those strategies applied to things I'd already written myself, especially with harmonizing. Have you written any riffs or phrases you like in your years of playing?

dannydawiz 11-19-2012 11:56 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccrawf11
If anyone could throw me some step by step instructions on where to start and how to work up to actually writing that'd be great. I know writing is based off scales, but there are a countless number of them and I have no idea which ones to know, or how to use a scale to make my own riff in general.


Music is written with your ears. When you're writing a song even if you do understand music theory you need to realize that it doesn't write the song for you. People have different writing processes and there is no formula to perfect songwriting otherwise everyone would know it. Regardless my advice to you is to listen to a lot of different music and try learning some music theory.

Writing music itself is not based off of scales. If i'm in the key of C Major i'm not gonna limit myself to 7 notes. There are 7 notes in the major scale but there are 12 notes in the octave which means that there is a possibility of 5 more notes that can be used to introduced harmonic tension.

If you decide to learn music theory I can guarantee that you will become better at narrowing down which notes to choose and as a result your songwriting will get easier. The pitch range of the guitar on a 24 fret is from an E2 to an E6. When you don't understand theory you have 48 notes to choose from. When you understand theory you have 28 notes to choose from.

Not only that but you learn the names of the sounds that you like. If you hear your favorite guitar players play a solo you will understand why you like that solo so much making it easier to pull that out from his playing and apply it to your own music. The solo might be based off of a certain scale or contain certain intervals/arpeggios that you find to be pleasing.

To top it all off it makes listening to music a lot more appealing. Nowadays when I listen to music I can tell whether the song is on the IV chord or whether its in Minor and Major and as a result you get a library of chord progressions that you like which you can pull out to use in your own songs.

In the end learning music theory and harmony will make the writing process A LOT easier.

Some guitar players like to use the guess method when writing songs. Other guitar players listen to a song that they like, pull some inspiration from that and turn it into a riff.

How you decide to write your music is completely dependent on you but it all starts with your ears. That's why listening to all kinds of music from Hip-Hop to Jazz to Death Metal is going to help you. Your creativity is limited to the sounds that you are able to recognize with your ears.

vampirelazarus 11-20-2012 12:10 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccrawf11
I know writing is based off scales, but there are a countless number of them and I have no idea which ones to know, or how to use a scale to make my own riff in general. what soever.


Yo Crawf, I'ma let you finish, but there are only like.... two scales. Major and minor. Sure, there are variations, like harmonic and melodic minor, also the pentatonics (but for simplicities sake, we shouldn't consider them "full" scales for now.)

Learn the major and minor scales. Then learn their pentatonics.

Then learn about intervals and chord construction.

Then listen, analyze, learn.

Then write.



Or skip all that, and write.

Jehannum 11-21-2012 10:29 AM

Jam on riffs or chord progressions you make up on the spot - just use pure imagination, try lots of different styles. Learn to make what comes in your head appear on the fretboard. Refine them, record them, keep them and when you've got a sizeable number go through them and see which ones could go together and what functions they could take: intro, chorus, verse, bridge. Then start putting them together. I enjoy this process.

jazz_rock_feel 11-21-2012 10:31 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dannydawiz
Music is written with your ears. When you're writing a song even if you do understand music theory you need to realize that it doesn't write the song for you. People have different writing processes and there is no formula to perfect songwriting otherwise everyone would know it. Regardless my advice to you is to listen to a lot of different music and try learning some music theory.

Writing music itself is not based off of scales. If i'm in the key of C Major i'm not gonna limit myself to 7 notes. There are 7 notes in the major scale but there are 12 notes in the octave which means that there is a possibility of 5 more notes that can be used to introduced harmonic tension.

If you decide to learn music theory I can guarantee that you will become better at narrowing down which notes to choose and as a result your songwriting will get easier. The pitch range of the guitar on a 24 fret is from an E2 to an E6. When you don't understand theory you have 48 notes to choose from. When you understand theory you have 28 notes to choose from.

Not only that but you learn the names of the sounds that you like. If you hear your favorite guitar players play a solo you will understand why you like that solo so much making it easier to pull that out from his playing and apply it to your own music. The solo might be based off of a certain scale or contain certain intervals/arpeggios that you find to be pleasing.

To top it all off it makes listening to music a lot more appealing. Nowadays when I listen to music I can tell whether the song is on the IV chord or whether its in Minor and Major and as a result you get a library of chord progressions that you like which you can pull out to use in your own songs.

In the end learning music theory and harmony will make the writing process A LOT easier.

Some guitar players like to use the guess method when writing songs. Other guitar players listen to a song that they like, pull some inspiration from that and turn it into a riff.

How you decide to write your music is completely dependent on you but it all starts with your ears. That's why listening to all kinds of music from Hip-Hop to Jazz to Death Metal is going to help you. Your creativity is limited to the sounds that you are able to recognize with your ears.

Holy shit.

z4twenny 11-21-2012 10:48 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazz_rock_feel
Holy shit.

You're as shocked as I am. A concise, articulate and meaningful post that doesn't once mention the dreaded "m" word. Kudos poster, kudos

Slashiepie 11-21-2012 11:04 AM

^^oh **** it!

ccrawf11
Learn Modes! lots of them! all of them!
catch em all!

z4twenny 11-21-2012 11:44 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slashiepie
^^oh **** it!

ccrawf11
Learn Modes! lots of them! all of them!
catch em all!

This is why we can't have nice things :haha:

food1010 11-22-2012 07:27 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by wandering_taco
Do you have a specific sound you'd like to create? What inspires you?
This is the most important part. To really create inspired music, you have to know what you want to hear.

Have you ever listened to a song and thought, "I like this, but I would like it better if it sounded more like this..."?

That's the start of realizing your creative potential.

Art Vandalay 11-23-2012 01:30 AM

I like to use a drum loop played back and pick a key and start just jamming out riff ideas and melodies to get an idea. I then take that idea and work with it until I find something I really like or give up and find a new one. That's just one method though, and I'm far from a great songwriter or great musician but it has got me some neat things going.

CarsonStevens 11-23-2012 05:21 AM

You want this book.

MaggaraMarine 11-23-2012 09:56 AM

Try to jam it in your head first. Then you know how it will sound like on guitar and after that play it on the guitar. If you first grab the guitar, you'll end up playing the same licks, chords and riffs that everybody uses. Grabbing the guitar without having a sound in your head turns the autopilot mode on and you just play the licks you have learned. But if you can hear the sound in your head first, you may not use those licks.

Try writing a drumbeat, bassline or simple guitar riff first and start building everything over it. That's how I have made some of my songs. The first idea is very simple and on its own it won't sound that good. Actually it sounds very generic. But when you start adding more and more instruments over it, it starts sounding awesome. I have this song with only one simple bassline throughout the whole song (only E notes in octaves and the rhythm is also pretty simple).

I get inspired when I'm walking outside or doing something else than playing guitar.

macashmack 11-23-2012 11:54 AM

I agree with you, however, unless you have a good trained ear you're not going to be hearing stuff in you head that's much different from stuff that you play on guitar on 'autopilot'.
I think, TS, that you should train you're ear. If you can hear instantly in your head what the tritone sounds like, or a minor sixth, or how a Neapolitan six chord sounds in context, or how the melody sounds over the harmony, etc. then you're not going to be able to write that much new things.
Dannydawiz pretty much got the answer down; learn music theory and train your ear.

On a side note, you guys diggin' my new avatar, or is it just as stupid as that ****ing lobster boy that i had before?


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