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-   -   Peavey Blue Marvel & Sheffield speakers: Opinions? (http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1574354)

woad_yurt 11-23-2012 10:00 AM

Peavey Blue Marvel & Sheffield speakers: Opinions?
 
Peavey Blue Marvel & Sheffield speakers: Opinions?

I have two Fender amps which I've made into heads and I currently play them through JBLs. The JBLs, while spectacular, are extremely efficient (102 and 104 db) and thus very loud. The Peaveys mentioned above are extremely inefficient (96 & 97 db) and it seems like I could crank up the volume knob quite a bit more as I like tube break up big time. I don't use any effects so power tube breakup is my sole goal.

I'm thinking that Blue Marvels and/or Sheffields would be good for small rooms. However, I have no idea what they sound like. I'm pretty sure that they won't be as crisp as the JBLs but almost no speakers are so I'm not worried about that. They have a decent frequency range and can be gotten very cheaply so they're an attractive prospect, at least on paper.

I have a 2x12 cab and can get both a Sheffield and a Blue Marvel (each 12"/16 ohms) for $40 locally. My cab is currently housing two JBLs which would be good for Yankee Stadium but it's pure overkill most anywhere else I'm liable to play. If I have to get loud, loud, I have a 1x12 with the same type JBL which does the job well. How would an 8 ohm Blue Marvel/Sheffield 2x12 be?

Does anyone here have any opinions about them? Do they sound thin?Dark? Heavy? Tinny? Flabby in the bass? Anything good or bad to look out for? Yay? Nay?

Thanks!

monwobobbo 11-23-2012 11:52 AM

exactly what amp are we talking about. going with less efficient speakers doesn't seem like a good plan to me. perhaps you need a lower wattage amp that can be cranked and not be quite as loud. for the record i do like sheffields and have had them in a couple of amps i've owned over the years. my Ultra 212 has them and they sound good to me. of course i play more high gain stuff so i dunno how good they are under the circumstances you mentioned. crazy idea but have you thought about an overdrive pedal perhaps?

woad_yurt 11-23-2012 12:22 PM

I appreciate your comments on the Sheffields. So they're ok, then?

Regarding my plan and your other questions:

I have a 135 watt Twin running on two tubes so I guess it'd be 67.5 watts (?) and a Champ 25 SE (2 6L6s/25 watts.)

I always use a Behringer MIC200 tube preamp on the neutral setting which gets me in the right neighborhood, soundwise but, still, those amps get loud when cranked, especially the Twin. The Champ is great but, turned up, it's just a bit to loud for band volumes. The Twin sounds wonderfully friggin' monstrous cranked up but it's just sooo damned loud. Any volume drop for ither would be a step in the right direction. I want to turn up the volume on both without getting more volume, only more power tube breakup.

What's not good about going from really efficient speakers to really inefficient ones to do so? We're talking at least a 5 db difference here which I know will be very noticeable.

Regarding overdrive pedals:

I want plain ol' power tube breakup and I haven't come across any pedals that do a dimed tube amp tone as well as a dimed tube amp does. I especially like that of a cranked 6L6 Fender. I've tried a bunch of pedals over the years and the sound has always been different, sometimes slightly and, sometimes, a whole lot.

monwobobbo 11-23-2012 12:30 PM

perhaps a power soak or the like would work for you. bottom line is that if you want the power tube sound then loud comes with the territory. dude a twin is known for keeping it's clean sound until you push it way hard, doesn't seem like the ideal amp for what you want at all.

ihartfood 11-23-2012 12:36 PM

so you can get loud, but not as loud as a cranked twin?
rivera rockcrusher.

woad_yurt 11-23-2012 12:46 PM

The Twin is like having a nitrous bottle in the trunk. It's not for every day but it's comfortable knowing it's there. The Champ, on the other hand, is more in the reasonable area. Actually, when run on the clean channel, and through the same bottom, it sounds kinda like the Twin but with less power.

That said, I'm not considering new amps, pedals, or whatever. I'm just asking about those two Peavey speakers. Any opinions on them?

BCKRedBaron 11-23-2012 01:36 PM

IMO they're both pretty bland and characterless tone-wise. I don't think I've ever played thru a JBL speaker but from everything I've read they're lightyears ahead of Peavey's speakers tone-wise.

Granted for $40 they'd be a pretty good deal, but I just have to think that going from JBLs to cheap Peavey speakers is quite a downgrade. Do you think you could save up some more money, and do a bit of research on some of Celestion's or Eminence's lower-sensitivity speakers? I'd almost bet you'd be happier with the tone if you went that route rather than settling for a Blue Marvel or Sheffield.

Some possible options that I found with just a quick scan of those mfg's websites: Celestion Heritage G1265 - 97 dB; G12M65 Creamback - 97 dB; or G12T75 - also 97 dB.
Eminence has the Texas Heat - 99dB, and the Reignmaker - 98.7 dB, but I've heard somewhere that they aren't as conservative with their ratings as Celestion. That might be something to research further.

Those are some other options you can add to the mix. Ultimately, your ears are the guide here. Of course it's not always possible to try speakers before you buy, but if you get the opportunity to compare various speakers/cabs firsthand before you buy something, that would be the best course of action. Good luck!

ikey_ 11-23-2012 03:45 PM

the eminence FDM or whatever goes from 91 (about lower than any speaker) to 100 SPL, higher on the spectrum.

thats a DRASTIC range, 9 DB. massive. problems are in a 2x12, you need to ensure they are fairly equal settings and they are also about 150 a pop.

___________

i disagree, speakers can easily have as much affect on volume than wattage, probably moreso. he does have the right idea.

however, they will only help get you breakup, not cause it on their own. i mean 100 to 97 SPL will help, but some old school speakers go down to 93-95. thats gonna get you a nice effect. 97 is fairly normal.

try looking at some jensens or something

W4RP1G 11-23-2012 04:41 PM

The sheffield in my old 6505 was ok. I wouldn't say it was flabby, in fact I thought it was very tight. Not super great in the bass area, and kind of bright, but it got the job done. It was better at low volumes than the Eminence Lynch Super V12 I put in there.

My only experience with the Blue Marvel is in my Vypyr 30, and I find it to be seriously lacking the bass department, and I mean seriously lacking. I closed the back to increase the bass response, and it helped a little, and I run an EQ in front of it, but it's still not where I feel it should be. But that could be because of the modeller amp too, I have no idea.

woad_yurt 11-23-2012 04:56 PM

Quote:
....they will only help get you breakup, not cause it on their own.


That's exactly what I want. I'm going from 102 or 104 db to 95-97 db so it should be very noticeable. I have one Eminence speaker rated at 98 db and even that 4 db difference is quite a bit. I'd use that speaker but it's 8 ohm, which is what I need in total. It makes a good 1x12 but these two 16 ohm Peaveys would give me an 8 ohm 2x12. The cabinet, btw, gives a nice, strong bass. It's big and is open-backed but only about 30% (max) of the back is open.

Note: Regarding overall quality, I don't expect Peavey speakers to ring out or thump like the JBLs; I'm realistic. But, if I can turn up a notch or two further, I'll be good. I'll trade away a little clarity for a little more raucousness. I wish I could afford some old Altecs. They have astounding fidelity but some of them were nicely inefficient as well. $300 each, though....

nickdohle 11-23-2012 05:02 PM

Just get an attenuator. I feel like you would benefit more with that then a speaker change.

Though, I wish I could crank a twin at my place.

W4RP1G 11-23-2012 05:02 PM

Ok, I'm kind of a ignorant when it comes to this stuff so please don't attack me for that, but what about a pot-in-a-box style of attenuator in the FX loop? Super cheap way to get tube break-up.

nickdohle 11-23-2012 05:04 PM

I think that attenuator would just get preamp breakup. But, I am not sure. I thought your signal goes through the preamp, out the effects loop, and then in again behind the power amp. which is the type of sound he wants

Any of that can be wrong, but I think its right.

woad_yurt 11-23-2012 05:10 PM

I looked at attenuators and they were expensive. Lots of folks have said that they somewhat dulled the treble end, some units more than others. There's one guaranteed to not dull one's tone, an Iron Man, I think, but it was like $700-$800 or so. Anyway, the Champ is already fairly close to where I want it tobe so, for $40, I'll give this a whirl. I suspect that my Twin may be able to sound to the way I'd like, too, in a big enough place, without making people squirm too badly.

W4RP1G 11-23-2012 05:10 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickdohle
I think that attenuator would just get preamp breakup. But, I am not sure. I thought your signal goes through the preamp, out the effects loop, and then in again behind the power amp. which is the type of sound he wants

Any of that can be wrong, but I think its right.

No, the attenuator would be after the preamp and before the power amp. So it would only reduce the signal from the preamp, so it shouldn't affect the preamp at all. Unless I'm missing something :shrug:

woad_yurt 11-24-2012 07:47 AM

I'm going to pick up the speakers before work today. I'll install them tonight and will report back.

Blktiger0 11-24-2012 01:40 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by W4RP1G
No, the attenuator would be after the preamp and before the power amp. So it would only reduce the signal from the preamp, so it shouldn't affect the preamp at all. Unless I'm missing something :shrug:


The Effects Loop is between the Preamp and Poweramp. What you're doing is basically putting in a Master Volume. You're letting the Preamp get nice and cooking, then you're reducing that signal before it gets to the Power section. In order to attenuate the Power tubes, you have to have something between your head and speaker cabinet.

For a Non-MV amp that has an effects loop, this would allow you to get Preamp Distortion at lower volumes, but not Power Amp.

TS, Have you looked into the the Eminence Reignmaker or Eminence Maverick? They are what ikey_ was talking about. The Maverick is the more drastic of the two. I realize you've already bought the Peavey speakers, but in case they aren't what you want, this might be enough attenuation.

tas38 11-24-2012 01:50 PM

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/acce...acement-speaker
The Jensen Mods are awesome, and this would be perfect for the champ at 96.5 dB sensitivity. And it's only 40 bucks

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/acce...acement-speaker
The 70 watt version for the twin is 65 bucks and has 97.5 sensitivity. So that would be a little extra cash. I have the 35 watt and it's been great. Super clear and a focused bass.

W4RP1G 11-24-2012 05:40 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blktiger0
The Effects Loop is between the Preamp and Poweramp. What you're doing is basically putting in a Master Volume. You're letting the Preamp get nice and cooking, then you're reducing that signal before it gets to the Power section. In order to attenuate the Power tubes, you have to have something between your head and speaker cabinet.

For a Non-MV amp that has an effects loop, this would allow you to get Preamp Distortion at lower volumes, but not Power Amp.

TS, Have you looked into the the Eminence Reignmaker or Eminence Maverick? They are what ikey_ was talking about. The Maverick is the more drastic of the two. I realize you've already bought the Peavey speakers, but in case they aren't what you want, this might be enough attenuation.

I'm not really sure exactly how an amp works, but if I reduce the signal going to the power section, and then I turn up the master volume(which I'm assuming is the output from the power section), how am I not increasing the voltage to the power tubes?

And I know the FX loop is between the preamp and power amp, I already said that.

woad_yurt 11-24-2012 11:06 PM

I got home with the speakers, installed them and have been playing through them for like 40 minutes. What a difference with the new speakers! The sound of that Twin kicks some serious ass when you can turn it up some without pain! Yeah, they don't have the clarity of the JBLs but they don't cause the ear pain, either.

My Twin Reverb Tube Breakup at Bearable Volumes Recipe:

Yank two of the power tubes, use lower efficiency speakers and add an additional tube preamp. I've been in here playing blaring rock and roll sounding like a pissed off & drunk Link Wray on steroids and nobody called the cops! I can play this thing at band volume now. Holy crap!

Tas38:
I did go to Jensen's site to look at those Mod 12-35s. They're actually rated at only 93.7 db sensitivity (even better!) When I do get some cash together, they're going into an 8 ohm 4x12. Until then, though, this new set up is pretty cool. Thanks for the recommendation. I have a goal.

PS Of the two, the Sheffield does sound a little better than the Blue Marvel but I'm still frickin' thrilled.


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