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-   -   i have a hard time telling when/if tremolo picking should be palm muted (http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1577621)

Templar0220 12-12-2012 02:46 PM

i have a hard time telling when/if tremolo picking should be palm muted
 
So basically I don't have the greatest ear. Ill follow a tab to a song as its written and if the person tabbing the song doesn't include any palm muting when there's supposed to be I'm screwed, because I can't always tell if it is or not. I'm mainly referring to death metal guitar and id say a major part of the reason I can't always tell is because of the layers of sound going on at once. With blistering drums and vocals its hard to be able to fully tell when there's palm muting in fast riffing or just in general. I started learning songs by the band/solo project Bloodsoaked. Peter, the band himself, tabbed all his songs on one of his albums and put them on UG. He didn't include whether or not there is palm muting or not and some of the riffs don't sound palm muted, but when I spoke to him he said ALL his tremolo picking parts were palm muted. Which as a result I feel stupid because I didn't think this nor could I really tell. This happens to me a lot and it really holds me back I feel. I don't think its good that I'm only as good as the tabber that includes info or not. Is all tremolo picking in death metal generally palm muted? Obviously I mean the lower strings. Any advice?

Templar0220 12-12-2012 09:55 PM

Anyone?

Viban 12-12-2012 10:23 PM

Well I usually just assume all "breakdowns" are palm muted. Its a tad harder to hear in this new generation of music in drop F tunings where most everything all sounds the same, all I hear is low sludge, and higher low sludge. But if you listen hard I'm sure you can figure it out, palm mutes are generally more percussive and staccato sounding.

Templar0220 12-12-2012 10:43 PM

Well heres an example of a song that im talking about:


At 0:50 (and elsewhere), apparently according to he himself, all his tremolo picking in his songs are palm muted. In that part for example, I was actually under the assumption that it wasnt. This makes me unsure with playing as a whole because now im sure what is and what isnt with songs and tabs. Really frustrating.

fanapathy 12-13-2012 12:15 AM

^Sounds like in that part, the low note guitar is palm muted (slight) but the one playing the higher notes isn't (or very slight). It can be because the gain is probably lower in those sections. The main riff (gallops and such) is heavier PM which is typical

Since the amount of PM applied can alter the sound radically I just think the best thing is to experiment until you find what sounds the most like it if you're doing a cover etc

Templar0220 12-13-2012 12:26 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by fanapathy
^Sounds like in that part, the low note guitar is palm muted (slight) but the one playing the higher notes isn't (or very slight). It can be because the gain is probably lower in those sections. The main riff (gallops and such) is heavier PM which is typical

Since the amount of PM applied can alter the sound radically I just think the best thing is to experiment until you find what sounds the most like it if you're doing a cover etc


Okay thank you. Do you think you might be able to explain to me different amounts of PM? I know how to PM of course, but how do apply "different" amounts?

fanapathy 12-13-2012 01:59 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Templar0220
Okay thank you. Do you think you might be able to explain to me different amounts of PM? I know how to PM of course, but how do apply "different" amounts?


Oh I just mean things like how much pressure you put on and how near/far from the bridge etc you are
BTW agree that it's confusing when tabs don't have PM in them, especially when they're really there and there are lots of them. Not sure why, some software doesn't support it I guess or they're lazy. Sometimes tabs have just a couple of PMs in a whole song but in reality it's all over the place

Templar0220 12-13-2012 09:33 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by fanapathy
Oh I just mean things like how much pressure you put on and how near/far from the bridge etc you are
BTW agree that it's confusing when tabs don't have PM in them, especially when they're really there and there are lots of them. Not sure why, some software doesn't support it I guess or they're lazy. Sometimes tabs have just a couple of PMs in a whole song but in reality it's all over the place


Thats what im saying, it really does frustrate me im glad someone agrees. Now with the pressure, I just lay my palm there to get enough of a mute, I dont 'push' down any more to create pressure or anything, is that correct? Also I do understand the distance from the bridge etc, and for this example would this be a case of just 'normal' palm muting thats closer to the bridge?

Andy Pollow 12-13-2012 10:52 AM

Your just talking about riffs right? Like Slayer riffs... Then its whatever sounds good to you. Like in "Kill Again" ( Hell Awaits ) I mute half and dont mute half of the riffs.

But with fast lead alternate picking I think you should always at least lightly mute. Ive just started liking to lightly mute all 6 strings - not only low e, a, d. I think one of the things that held me back fast alternate picking is trying to only mute the strings above the one Im picking. So your palm is moving on/off the strings constantly. Its alot simpler to just keep your palm on the strings when your picking fast - Yngwie, Racer X, ....

Viban 12-14-2012 12:24 AM

move your hand around and push with different pressures, it can make different sounds, you can go from a subtle chunk to the full on death metal CHUG CHUG CHUG depending on where and how you do it.

Templar0220 12-14-2012 10:28 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viban
move your hand around and push with different pressures, it can make different sounds, you can go from a subtle chunk to the full on death metal CHUG CHUG CHUG depending on where and how you do it.

I get how moving the hand up and down the strings will produce different levels of muting, I just need to know what the 'right' position for palm muted tremolo picking. Its also for future reference whenever I'm trying to figure out if a tremolo picking riff has a level of palm muting or not is something I really need to figure out. Its just hard to tell a lot of times because of the speed, layers of sound, complexity, etc, in most DM songs

Templar0220 12-19-2012 07:51 PM

Hey im back, heres another example of my question, here in the song Open Casket by Death, are the tremolo parts palm muted or open? The main/intro riff, and immediately after at around :35 being examples. What do you say?


Templar0220 12-20-2012 04:07 PM

Bump

Andy Pollow 12-20-2012 07:52 PM

I think its lightly muted. You just gotta do what sounds good to you. Thats a great album. I still have that on cassette from the 80's.

Templar0220 12-20-2012 07:57 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Pollow
I think its lightly muted. You just gotta do what sounds good to you. Thats a great album. I still have that on cassette from the 80's.


Okay well if you dont mind, do you think you can explain to me what you mean by 'lightly' muted? Like how so? I know theres palm muting and...well not muted. What is considered lightly muted and where exactly on the strings would you palm go for that effect?

Andy Pollow 12-20-2012 08:57 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Templar0220
Okay well if you dont mind, do you think you can explain to me what you mean by 'lightly' muted? Like how so? I know theres palm muting and...well not muted. What is considered lightly muted and where exactly on the strings would you palm go for that effect?


If you put your palm on top of the saddle pieces or right next to the bridge its lightly muted. If you put your palm a little farther left away from the bridge its a heavier muted sound. And also you can control light/hard muting with the amount of pressure you push on the strings with too.

A light pressure right next to the bridge can be so light most people wouldnt notice your muting. I didnt notice that Yngwie mutes when he picks fast untill he said he does in an interview because he usually mutes very lightly. But Al Dimeola mutes so hard you can tell immediately hes palm muting when he picks fast.

Templar0220 12-21-2012 09:57 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Pollow
If you put your palm on top of the saddle pieces or right next to the bridge its lightly muted. If you put your palm a little farther left away from the bridge its a heavier muted sound. And also you can control light/hard muting with the amount of pressure you push on the strings with too.

A light pressure right next to the bridge can be so light most people wouldnt notice your muting. I didnt notice that Yngwie mutes when he picks fast untill he said he does in an interview because he usually mutes very lightly. But Al Dimeola mutes so hard you can tell immediately hes palm muting when he picks fast.


Okay thank you very much


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