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-   -   Question about scale names and positions? (http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1577659)

iwannaplay2 12-12-2012 05:54 PM

Question about scale names and positions?
 
I have this guide,

http://imgur.com/xsFBY

The circles ones I imagine are 'sharp'?

But if they are why doesn't that scale start on the corosponding note? Example:the Db major is like this,

http://imgur.com/69i4c

If this is d sharp why doesn't it start at the 11th fret on the g# note? Or am I missing something?

J-Dawg158 12-12-2012 06:09 PM

That's the symbol for flat. The symbol for sharp is #.

Sickz 12-12-2012 06:11 PM

Those are not sharps, those are flats.

This is a sharp symbol: http://www.epianostudio.com/wp-cont...09/02/sharp.gif

It starts on the 9th fret of the E string cause thats the note D flat/C sharp (In this key it is a D flat though). 10 fret would be a D, so you lower it by a semitone, you got D flat.

That's probably the most basic way i can explain this.... I would imagine Zaphod or someone else could do a better job and fill in the gaps in my explanation.

gypsyblues7373 12-12-2012 06:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sickz
Those are not sharps, those are flats.

This is a sharp symbol: http://www.epianostudio.com/wp-cont...09/02/sharp.gif

It starts on the 9th fret of the E string cause thats the note D flat/C sharp (In this key it is a D flat though). 10 fret would be a D, so you lower it by a semitone, you got D flat.

That's probably the most basic way i can explain this.... I would imagine Zaphod or someone else could do a better job and fill in the gaps in my explanation.


I think that's about the only way you can really explain it! :shrug: It's just Db. Simple. I wouldn't put too much time into learning a scale in Db initially, since it's rare that you're going to run into a guitar-based song in that key. I'd worry about the more common keys first, like E, A, G, D...then you'll find that if you need to play in a flatted of sharped key, all you have to do is shift the form up or down the fretboard (once you've got it fully memorized and under your fingers).

Zaphod_Beeblebr 12-12-2012 07:12 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by iwannaplay2
But if they are why doesn't that scale start on the corosponding note? Example:the Db major is like this,

http://imgur.com/69i4c

If this is d sharp why doesn't it start at the 11th fret on the g# note? Or am I missing something?


One of the most important parts about this whole post is a very key misunderstanding:

A scale doesn't have to start on a given note to be in that key.

It doesn't really matter that the scale diagram starts on Db, it contains the notes of Db so that's what it is. Note that it could be Bb/A# minor as well but that depends on the backing you're playing over.

gypsyblues7373 12-12-2012 07:16 PM

That is true...but a little advanced, I think, for someone just now learning scales :)

Zaphod_Beeblebr 12-12-2012 07:19 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsyblues7373
That is true...but a little advanced, I think, for someone just now learning scales :)


Not at all; people need to get used to the idea that a scale doesn't start or end in one place or anything of the sort. Scales are defined by resolution and the notes they contain. Defining them by the physical application on the guitar is getting the whole arrangement the wrong way around.

gypsyblues7373 12-12-2012 07:23 PM

But as a beginner, the only way he can apply it is physically in forms/shapes on the guitar. From there he can learn the proper intervals, how they sound, etc. Without knowing where to find them on the guitar first, it's just abstract to someone new to the guitar. Just my opinion.

Zaphod_Beeblebr 12-12-2012 07:27 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsyblues7373
But as a beginner, the only way he can apply it is physically in forms/shapes on the guitar. From there he can learn the proper intervals, how they sound, etc. Without knowing where to find them on the guitar first, it's just abstract to someone new to the guitar. Just my opinion.


That's fine but a conceptual understanding of what a scale is at this stage in learning will only propagate throughout the rest of his learning. It's where people get these asinine ideas about modes from, I'm sure of it.


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