UG Community @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com

UG Community @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com (http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/index.php)
-   Musician Talk (http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=8)
-   -   How did Tony Iommi influence metal? (http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1579819)

WrathfulOne 12-27-2012 10:07 AM

How did Tony Iommi influence metal?
 
It sounds like a school essay, but I am genuinely interested to hear people's thoughts on this, since he seems to be hailed as a revolutionary figure in metal.

(Hopefully this is the right sub-forum)

I'm not really a Black Sabbath fan as such, but I am currently learning Iron Man (the first solo is taking a while) since my dad is a big fan and he is going to see them play next year, so I thought I would see if I can learn one of their songs since they are supposed to be one of the founders of metal.

What exactly did he invent with regards to metal? From what I've read, he invented the dark/low tone? Are there particular chords he popularised?

From what I've learned with Iron Man, it seems like a standard metal song with a power chord going up the neck for the chorus and then playing the same riff as notes for the verses. I am rubbish at music theory, I just learn from tabs. Incidentally, almost all of the Iron Man tabs on here are wrong, as you can clearly see in the music video - for the chorus he plays the low E and A strings, not the A and D strings that most people tab it as, and he goes up to the 15th and 17th frets (beside the point, but just drives me nuts!).

Again, this isn't any kind of school work - I am 29 and just bored here at work, so I thought I would get some of your opinions. :p:

Jehannum 12-27-2012 10:30 AM

Sabbath helped to create metal by successfully making the dark-and-heavy sound the main focus of their music and their image. Such music and visual and lyrical imagery already existed since the 60s but in a more experimental form. Sabbath made it their norm.

Iommi's particular contribution included lengthy guitar solos, power chords, strong riffs and lowered tunings. He was also one of the first to fully utilise the open E string 'chug' that became the signature sounds of 80s thrash. See 'Symptom Of The Universe' or 'Into The Void'.

Hail 12-27-2012 11:11 AM

sludge, stoner, and doom all came from sabbath. mix that with punk and speed/glam metal and you can see where early metallica and slayer and all them came from.

EpiExplorer 12-27-2012 11:20 AM

A combination of powerful riffs, one of the first bands to use straight up power chords. Like Jehannum said (sort of), using the tritone, which was treated as being 'non-musical' at the time in popular music, lowered tunings after the Paranoid album to help deal with his finger issue (cuz he lost the tips in a factory accident), loads of overdrive/distortion, which was difficult to do with the low gain amps of the era. He had a preference for using the lowest strings in the early days for added chunk, but my guess is as amp tech improved, the sound of the other strings became just as heavy. I've seen recent live vids where he uses the A and D strings for most of the Iron man riff, so its probably whatever he feels comfortable with.

He also pretty much invented every standard template for every metal riff for the 70's and 80's. For instance, the end solo to 'Fairies wear boots' was borrowed by Metallica in 'For Whom The Bell tolls', in a different key, the main riff to 'Children of the grave' is used in a lot of metal, the idea of having a quite-ish track in the middle of an album as a break of sorts (Sweet leaf, Planet Caravan, etc) has been used quite a bit since then.

His song writing style also helped, as songs on Paranoid had defined and different verse and bridge sections, that felt like they belonged on different songs. Iron Man for instance, has an upbeat bridge for the solo, and so does Electric Funeral, both of which are generally slow songs.

MaggaraMarine 12-27-2012 05:30 PM

You have to remember that they were the first to write that kind of songs. Of course today they don't seem that heavy but back then nobody had heard anything like that before. The riffs are simple and heavy and only use power chords (and some minor chords played on the G B and E strings) (because Iommi couldn't play full chords because of his fingers).

Also he tuned one and a half steps down after Paranoid album. I don't know if people used that low tunings before him.

satanatheist 12-27-2012 07:58 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1t5VR5ruBI#t=9m25s

griffRG7321 12-27-2012 08:25 PM

He played brutal breakdowns and invented pig squealing.

WrathfulOne 12-28-2012 04:35 AM

I see, cheers dudes. I can recognise similar elements to his playing in some songs by modern bands, but I wasn't sure if it was just common music knowledge or if it originated from Black Sabbath's music.

So when they came out, was everyone listening to The Beatles and happy hippy music? Therefore they were genuinely the first metal band ever to reach a wide audience?

I wonder what that was like. The only new genres we get these days are shitty dance music. I don't think things like death metal or math metal have had quite the same impact as metal just coming out of nowhere.

The only thing I can compare it to is when Nirvana came out and sounded the death knell for those glam metal bands with tight pants and big hair.

AlanHB 12-28-2012 04:57 AM

^^^ Do some research dude. The album Paranoid came out in 1970. Figure out what was popular then and you have the answer to your question.

TheHydra 12-28-2012 07:03 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by WrathfulOne
I see, cheers dudes. I can recognise similar elements to his playing in some songs by modern bands, but I wasn't sure if it was just common music knowledge or if it originated from Black Sabbath's music.

So when they came out, was everyone listening to The Beatles and happy hippy music? Therefore they were genuinely the first metal band ever to reach a wide audience?

I wonder what that was like. The only new genres we get these days are shitty dance music. I don't think things like death metal or math metal have had quite the same impact as metal just coming out of nowhere.

The only thing I can compare it to is when Nirvana came out and sounded the death knell for those glam metal bands with tight pants and big hair.

I might get crucified for this comparison, but dubstep seems to be the go-to parent scaring music nowadays...

WrathfulOne 12-28-2012 01:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHydra
I might get crucified for this comparison, but dubstep seems to be the go-to parent scaring music nowadays...


Haha, yeah I intentionally avoided saying the D-word.

Hail 12-28-2012 02:41 PM

dubstep is so 2008 shut up it's just another area of EDM now

CarsonStevens 12-28-2012 03:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanHB
^^^ Do some research dude. The album Paranoid came out in 1970. Figure out what was popular then and you have the answer to your question.


I know what Alan was getting at is "disco", but you're also kinda correct in that a lot of people were listening to "happy hippy music" at that time. The Monkees' reign over the pop market lasted from roughly '67 to '69 (their last album was released in 1970, IIRC), and their third album ("Headquarters") clashed with (and was soon overshadowed by) the release of the Beatles' "Sgt. Pepper" in 1967.

gunsnroses#1 12-29-2012 02:45 PM

Sabbath was arguably (in my mind, however, without a doubt) the first metal band. They sang about death, hell, black magic, war and other dark subjects while other bands were singing about love, peace and whatnot. Ozzy distinct voice would wail over Iommi's genius riffs while Geezer and Ward were thumping away on the bass and tearing up the drums.

The tuning down you're referring to is due to fact that Iommi had the tips of some of his fingers cut off in an industrial accident. He improvised and made fake fingertips and detuned his guitar to lessen the string tension (or so I've heard, I've played along to their songs in standard tuning and the notes were the same).

And while you say the tabs are wrong, they are in fact the same notes. Play the second fret on the A string (That's a B note)... now play the seventh fret on the E string (That is also a B). The position may be different, but the notes are the same. It's just how you prefer to play it.

SOURCES: years of being a Sabbath fan, research, read Ozzy's autobio

gunsnroses#1 12-29-2012 02:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaggaraMarine
The riffs are simple and heavy and only use power chords (and some minor chords played on the G B and E strings) (because Iommi couldn't play full chords because of his fingers).


I disagree sir. "Planet Caravan" contains actual chords.

AeonOptic 12-29-2012 02:54 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunsnroses#1
I disagree sir. "Planet Caravan" contains actual chords.

Depending how you play it, Planet Caravan only actually has two notes fretted simultaneously in the main riff.

MaggaraMarine 12-29-2012 03:35 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunsnroses#1
I disagree sir. "Planet Caravan" contains actual chords.

Yeah. But he uses open strings in that song. Two fretted notes, the rest are open strings. And of course he could play full chords but they were harder for him to play because of his fingers.

Nietsche 12-29-2012 04:43 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunsnroses#1
or so I've heard, I've played along to their songs in standard tuning and the notes were the same


Yeah, that's because the first two albums are in standard tuning. If you're playing along to 'Into the Void' or 'Children of the Grave' in standard, though, you're doing it wrong.

Hail hit the nail on the head in terms of innovation, the first three or so albums pretty much pioneered the doom metal sound, specifically traditional doom, which was refined by Saint Vitus, Trouble, Reverend Bizarre and so on. Though in terms of immediate influence Sabbath were probably more significant for the dark, apocalyptic imagery they utilised - most popular bands of the 80's took more in terms of musical ideas from Judas Priest and Motorhead.

gunsnroses#1 12-29-2012 10:14 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AeonOptic
Depending how you play it, Planet Caravan only actually has two notes fretted simultaneously in the main riff.


Ah, I see. I had learned it by ear and was playing it a different way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaggaraMarine
Yeah. But he uses open strings in that song. Two fretted notes, the rest are open strings. And of course he could play full chords but they were harder for him to play because of his fingers.


Indeed sir, but I don't think it would be too big of a deal for him to play chords considering the monster licks he pulls off. However, we're drifting away from the original point, Sabbath made metal.

Also note the prominent use of the tritone (Devil's interval) in the song "Black Sabbath". It was banned in the early Catholic (I believe) church due to its' inherent 'evil' sound that it gets from the dissonance. Again adding to the 'scary' music they were making that was so revolutionary at the time.

WrathfulOne 01-03-2013 09:24 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunsnroses#1
Sabbath was arguably (in my mind, however, without a doubt) the first metal band. They sang about death, hell, black magic, war and other dark subjects while other bands were singing about love, peace and whatnot. Ozzy distinct voice would wail over Iommi's genius riffs while Geezer and Ward were thumping away on the bass and tearing up the drums.

The tuning down you're referring to is due to fact that Iommi had the tips of some of his fingers cut off in an industrial accident. He improvised and made fake fingertips and detuned his guitar to lessen the string tension (or so I've heard, I've played along to their songs in standard tuning and the notes were the same).

And while you say the tabs are wrong, they are in fact the same notes. Play the second fret on the A string (That's a B note)... now play the seventh fret on the E string (That is also a B). The position may be different, but the notes are the same. It's just how you prefer to play it.

SOURCES: years of being a Sabbath fan, research, read Ozzy's autobio


Thanks, I could have gone to Wikipedia or something, but it's a bit dry and I wanted to hear what some of you guys have to say about it (the human element if you will).

I know about the notes being at various places on the neck, but I believe in recreating the original guitarist's performance exactly, so I study youtube vids for ages trying to determine if I am playing it the same as the original player did. Perhaps somewhat OCD, but I see other people correcting tabs in comments about which fret a note is played on, so I don't think I'm alone!


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:17 PM.

Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.