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-   -   Tonal Center (http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1579994)

satchfan9 12-28-2012 09:53 AM

Tonal Center
 
Hey I'm new to this and I think this is the right forum.

How do I figure what is a Tonal Center? I think I have figured some:
Crazy Train-F#m shifting to A
Stranglehold-A(Mixolydian if you want that, but I leave it in A)
Mr. Jones-Am shifting to C
Electric Gypsy-Db
God Is Crying-G

Yes?
But I have this progression:
e:12--9--7-9
B:10-12-7-9
G:11-9--6-9
D:9--11-7-7
A:
E:
I don't know it, so I suppose that I don't know how to figure it out.

MaggaraMarine 12-28-2012 01:43 PM

The chords are B7sus4 C#m7 A69 Amaj7. It could be C#m but I'm not sure about it if I don't hear the song.

satchfan9 12-28-2012 02:34 PM

It's not a song or anything just a progression I made but to think of a rhytmn would be:
Quarter, half, quarter silence, quarter half, quarter silence at some 140bpm

AeolianWolf 12-28-2012 02:51 PM

sounds very A major to me.

satchfan9 12-28-2012 03:00 PM

So it's either C# or A, how do you do this?

AeolianWolf 12-28-2012 03:21 PM

you use your ear?

figure it out the same way you figured out the other ones. obviously you have some idea what you're doing because you were able to figure out the keys of other songs.

satchfan9 12-28-2012 03:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AeolianWolf
you use your ear?

figure it out the same way you figured out the other ones. obviously you have some idea what you're doing because you were able to figure out the keys of other songs.

They have either a droning note(A in Stranglehold for example) or the progression is typical. I know how to differentiate modes/scales that's how I know Stranglehold isn't Phrygian for example. But progressions like that, with more harmonic content seem to be a wall for meor progressions that don't start on the l.

AeolianWolf 12-28-2012 05:52 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by satchfan9
They have either a droning note(A in Stranglehold for example) or the progression is typical. I know how to differentiate modes/scales that's how I know Stranglehold isn't Phrygian for example. But progressions like that, with more harmonic content seem to be a wall for meor progressions that don't start on the l.


i suggest you forget what you know and start learning theory, then. ultimately this method of analysis you're employing is going to be of extremely little use to you.

also forget modes. for now.

satchfan9 12-28-2012 06:44 PM

I know the theory on musictheory and other assorted what do I learn now?

mdc 12-28-2012 06:48 PM

Nothing. Yer set for life mate.

satchfan9 12-28-2012 07:06 PM

If that so, why don't I know how to identify a tonal centre?

mdc 12-28-2012 07:09 PM

Study cadences.

chronowarp 12-28-2012 07:12 PM

I find it's significantly easier to find the tonal center without even looking at the changes.

Just sit there and play a note until you find the one that sounds best. That's probably the root or the fifth of the tonic. problem solved. If you can't hear what home sounds like, then that's a bigger issue than being able to infer the tonal center from a set of chords.

satchfan9 12-28-2012 07:30 PM

Thanks guys, appreciated the help :D
Will study cadences.
The tonal centre was A I suppose, though it probably sounds good cause most of them had it ._.

AeolianWolf 12-28-2012 07:45 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by satchfan9
I know the theory on musictheory and other assorted what do I learn now?


so if i asked you what the vi was in Eb major, could you tell me off the bat?

if not, that might be something to work on. it's all well and good to be able to work it out, but ultimately you're going to have a lot of trouble applying it if you don't truly own the information.

Junior#1 12-28-2012 09:14 PM

The tonal center has less to do with the actual chords and more to do with the note that the song want to resolve to. Training your ear will help you identify the tonal center more than theory. Don't get me wrong, you should still definitely learn theory, but for this, your ear will be more useful.

satchfan9 12-29-2012 09:48 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AeolianWolf
so if i asked you what the vi was in Eb major, could you tell me off the bat?

if not, that might be something to work on. it's all well and good to be able to work it out, but ultimately you're going to have a lot of trouble applying it if you don't truly own the information.

Yes, it's C. The only key that brings some problem is Bb as I don't know a single song on it(which helps me learn), but I'm working on that now :)

satchfan9 12-29-2012 09:50 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior#1
The tonal center has less to do with the actual chords and more to do with the note that the song want to resolve to. Training your ear will help you identify the tonal center more than theory. Don't get me wrong, you should still definitely learn theory, but for this, your ear will be more useful.

I'm working on intervals, then going to chords, because my scale recognition is decent I think.

Hail 12-29-2012 09:58 AM

what do you know of keys, TS?

mdc 12-29-2012 10:58 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hail
what do you know of keys, TS?

Everything...
Quote:
Originally Posted by satchfan9
I know the theory on musictheory and other assorted what do I learn now


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