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-   -   Gender and Racial Exclusion In Music (http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1580792)

Hereiwas 01-02-2013 03:20 PM

Gender and Racial Exclusion In Music
 
After the thread about whether or not women inherently have worse taste in music, I thought it would be interesting to hear people's opinions on exclusion in music more generally. I coincidentally read an article by Laina Dawes about her experience of the grunge scene in canada as a black woman and she had this to say:

"We were usually the only black women in the room, and the men, not knowing what to do with us, either sneered or ignored us, sometimes physically shoving us aside. [...] eventually my friend opted out of going to shows with me [...] These groups [Parliament-Funkadelic, Bad Brains etc] made me feel better about my schizophrenic life: a black militant and social justice activist immersed in white music. The music suited the inner frustration I was experiencing but was encouraged not to openly express. But the contemporary groups primarily consisted of men, who, as I learned much later, were less likely to generate consternation in others because of their music preferences."

Looking over my record collection, I find that most of my records are recorded by men, the producers are men and the album art is by men. Additionaly, my musicians tend to keep to "racial genres". In the magazine from which I take that article, The Wire, despite it being a "cerebral"/progressive magazine, most of the contributors are men.
I've also noticed certain positive discriminations in music. For instance, I find that it is quite common to say "great Japanese noise band" as if their being from Japan gives them a natural advantage in noise music, and indeed many of the japanese bands which reach the UK are "noise" bands because of it. (recent example, Bo Ningen)
+ in the other thread people were saying "girls listen to Rhianna because it makes them feel like 'the only girl in the world'". Obviously, a certain number of listeners will be able to identify with Rhianna because she is a woman. However, although there are plenty of men who listen to Rhianna, people were talking as if only women listened to Rhianna. (so like, men are excluded from genre/singers as well.)

So i don;t know... talk about this i guess.

TL;DR why do certain people get excluded from certain genres, and why do we take it for granted?

whywefight 01-02-2013 03:23 PM

Eminem's my favorite rapper


I know not what you speak of

Wolfinator-x 01-02-2013 03:23 PM

I think the only black people I've ever met (in person) were into rap and techno almost exclusively, with the exception of one blues guitarist at this one bar.

ali.guitarkid7 01-02-2013 03:25 PM

Women/black people/japanese people are in bands?

willT08 01-02-2013 03:26 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfinator-x
I think the only black people I've ever met (in person) were into rap and techno almost exclusively, with the exception of one blues guitarist at this one bar.

You say that like you've only ever met 3 :haha:

jjfeu662 01-02-2013 03:27 PM

The best music is made by ugly white european men.

Wolfinator-x 01-02-2013 03:28 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by willT08
You say that like you've only ever met 3 :haha:
You mean you've met more than that?? :eek:

Hereiwas 01-02-2013 03:28 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfinator-x
I think the only black people I've ever met (in person) were into rap and techno almost exclusively, with the exception of one blues guitarist at this one bar.



well, yeah, and it's like "why?". It seems weird that people limit their interests just as much as they let them be limited.

Bob_Sacamano 01-02-2013 03:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ali.guitarkid7
Women/black people/japanese people are in bands?

Where'd you get that idea? :confused:

Seriously, I'm really glad I'm a white dude, even if no one actually said anything derogatory about me because of my gender/race I'd still feel all the judging about doing things that they aren't normally expected to do. Even the constant playful jokes would be terrible.

willT08 01-02-2013 03:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfinator-x
You mean you've met more than that?? :eek:

You ever been to a party with white people?

You start seeking out black people pretty soon after that.

metal4eva_22 01-02-2013 03:32 PM

Like this if you are a strong independent black woman who don't need no man.

whywefight 01-02-2013 03:32 PM

I've had my race joked about, both as 15/16th white and as 1/16th native american. Needless to say, you have to be pretty white to be made fun of for being white in South Dakota.

Sir-Shredalot 01-02-2013 03:32 PM

here are some generalisations

whites self indulgent whining re not getting laid
blacks boasting about how big their penises are
asians whatever makes them non asian
hispanics whatever neolithic music they copied on a cassette from the 80s

metal4eva_22 01-02-2013 03:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfinator-x
You mean you've met more than that?? :eek:

There's not very many Black people where I live either. I think the cold weather of Canada scares them away.

Sir-Shredalot 01-02-2013 03:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by metal4eva_22
There's not very many Black people where I live either. I think the cold weather of Canada scares them away.


NHL..case in point

Wolfinator-x 01-02-2013 03:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by metal4eva_22
There's not very many Black people where I live either. I think the cold weather of Canada scares them away.
No, it's the 9-month lack of sunlight that prevents their melatonin to show up below their epidermis.
Quote:
Originally Posted by willT08
You ever been to a party with white people?

You start seeking out black people pretty soon after that.
Please, I'm a Pit-goer.

I don't even know what a party is.

EpiExplorer 01-02-2013 03:45 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfinator-x

I don't even know what a party is.



My pants require your presence.

stonedhippos 01-02-2013 03:51 PM

i'm black, canadian, and a metal head. my friends joke about how "white" i am but that's just because i'm not a hood rat or gangster poser like most black people we know.

anyway, you should really see this documentary. a genre's fan base never consists of only one race.

due 07 01-02-2013 03:51 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hereiwas
TL;DR why do certain people get excluded from certain genres, and why do we take it for granted?

because notions of patriarchal hierarchies and white supremacy are so entrenched in our popular consciousness that even really socially progressive music scenes are essentially a microcosm of society-at-large. we take it for granted because we're mostly white cis males who suck at recognizing our own privilege or lack of inclusiveness and diversity in our environments. fuck that noise though.

Todd Hart 01-02-2013 03:51 PM

inb4 stupid statement by due

Edit: beaten to it, damn.


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