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-   -   Trouble with Barring (http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1581685)

amitm9s6 01-07-2013 04:33 PM

Trouble with Barring
 
I've been playing for about 5 months on a classic guitar, and I've started to learn barrning about 2 months ago... 2 months has passed, and I still dont barr perfect..
if I barr the 5th string and under, Im baring pretty well (and usually if at all max 1 string which is either E or B will be bad), and if I barr the 6th string and under, Im having more difficults, speicaly with the E and B strings.. It sounds okay if I bar the whole fret, but not perfect.. are there any speical tips to improve the techniqe ?

Does 2 months of trying to perfect the barring a lot? and I still did not achive perfectly...

Thanks for your help :)

Arasuta 01-07-2013 04:57 PM

Even if the the action is too high for a starter guitar, the only thing is practice. Hendrix probably started out on a pig of a guitar! Mastering barring is probably the biggest hurdle for a lot of starting guitarists - sadly, many give up! Just persist - in time it'll be easier as your technique and finger strength improves and you'll enjoy playing so much more. So keep it up! It sounds like you're more than halfway there.

amydebra466 01-07-2013 05:02 PM

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Arasuta 01-07-2013 05:05 PM

...and save up for a cheap but half-decent electric guitar. Amp isn't an automatic 'must buy' at start but playing an electric will be easier to start.

amitm9s6 01-07-2013 05:10 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arasuta
...and save up for a cheap but half-decent electric guitar. Amp isn't an automatic 'must buy' at start but playing an electric will be easier to start.


I am planning to get electric guitar, but I have couple of months ahead, before Ill move to it, since I want to master the techniqes at classic guitar first.

AeonOptic 01-07-2013 06:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arasuta
Even if the the action is too high for a starter guitar, the only thing is practice. Hendrix probably started out on a pig of a guitar! Mastering barring is probably the biggest hurdle for a lot of starting guitarists - sadly, many give up! Just persist - in time it'll be easier as your technique and finger strength improves and you'll enjoy playing so much more. So keep it up! It sounds like you're more than halfway there.

His first guitar was an acoustic with a warped neck and one string. :p:
Also note, bending may be difficult on a classical guitar, though that might just be me.
What is your barring finger like relative to the string?

Dreal 01-07-2013 08:14 PM

Try slightly curving your barring finger, and using more of the side of your finger then the palm side of your finger. I find this helps for me.

amitm9s6 01-08-2013 04:09 PM

Thanks for the tips guys!
2 Months are a lot of time, for a person who hasent mastered Barring, though is like in the halfway there? (learning only by the net so far)

Shadowofravenwo 01-08-2013 04:11 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitm9s6
Thanks for the tips guys!
2 Months are a lot of time, for a person who hasent mastered Barring, though is like in the halfway there? (learning only by the net so far)


You'll get there when you get there. No sooner, no later.

Barricade_28 01-08-2013 07:00 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreal
Try slightly curving your barring finger, and using more of the side of your finger then the palm side of your finger. I find this helps for me.


This. It helps huge for me too. Assuming you're barring with our index finger, roll the finger a bit on its side (towards the nut/headstock) so that the skin-folds that are under your finger knuckles on the palm side aren't there to create gaps that make it hard to hold down every string. You'll be barring more with the hard bone of your finger/knuckles (on the side of the finger) rather than the soft muscle (on the palm side of the finger) too, which makes it easier to barre.

Another technique is to place your middle finger on top of your index finger to help keep the index finger pushed down harder on the strings.

Shadowofravenwo 01-08-2013 08:47 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barricade_28
This. It helps huge for me too. Assuming you're barring with our index finger, roll the finger a bit on its side (towards the nut/headstock) so that the skin-folds that are under your finger knuckles on the palm side aren't there to create gaps that make it hard to hold down every string. You'll be barring more with the hard bone of your finger/knuckles (on the side of the finger) rather than the soft muscle (on the palm side of the finger) too, which makes it easier to barre.

Another technique is to place your middle finger on top of your index finger to help keep the index finger pushed down harder on the strings.


Wouldn't always work, but not a bad idea.

amitm9s6 01-10-2013 10:07 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barricade_28
This. It helps huge for me too. Assuming you're barring with our index finger, roll the finger a bit on its side (towards the nut/headstock) so that the skin-folds that are under your finger knuckles on the palm side aren't there to create gaps that make it hard to hold down every string. You'll be barring more with the hard bone of your finger/knuckles (on the side of the finger) rather than the soft muscle (on the palm side of the finger) too, which makes it easier to barre.

Another technique is to place your middle finger on top of your index finger to help keep the index finger pushed down harder on the strings.


Didnt help me that much.. but thanks anyway!

Wesbanez 01-10-2013 10:21 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitm9s6
I want to master the techniqes at classic guitar first.


You probably wont be wanting an electric or amp for at least another 20 years then ;)

amitm9s6 01-10-2013 02:12 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesbanez
You probably wont be wanting an electric or amp for at least another 20 years then ;)


Why so? To get better, you need a stable & good on the basic, and Im pretty sure Barring is a basic techniqe!

AeonOptic 01-10-2013 02:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitm9s6
Why so? To get better, you need a stable & good on the basic, and Im pretty sure Barring is a basic techniqe!

Personally at least, electric guitar is so much easier to perform all the techniques on. I find it nigh impossible to bend on a classical.

amitm9s6 01-10-2013 03:28 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AeonOptic
Personally at least, electric guitar is so much easier to perform all the techniques on. I find it nigh impossible to bend on a classical.


Really? then maybe Im not as bad as I think ?
I've just tried to play on electric guitar, and it really was way easier.. but It's allways better to go from hard to easy, when you've mastered a techniqe on hard (thats my opinion at least)...

and I dont know what about you, but Im bending pretty easly from the 3rd fret and on, on Classic guitar... (Californication solo :D)

aPutridCorpse 01-10-2013 04:35 PM

I can get most barre chords to sound nice unless I need to switch to another chord quickly.

The issue I have is the strain that it puts on my thumb. I can play Harvest by Opeth which is about 90% barre chords, but by the end of the song there's no way I could play it again unless I rest my hand for 10 minutes...I've been waiting for this magical point of time when I have enough hand strength and can play it flawlessly but I wonder if my technique is wrong.

amitm9s6 01-10-2013 05:05 PM

Hey guys, I know it's easier to barr on electric guitar, but what about acoustic? Is it easier to bar on acoustic then on classic guitar, or the opposite ?

InfiniStudent 01-11-2013 10:59 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitm9s6
but It's allways better to go from hard to easy, when you've mastered a techniqe on hard (thats my opinion at least)...

Not really. ;) You shouldn't deadlift 100 pounds just so it will be easy to lift 20...
It's easier where it's easier. And a gradual increase is a much faster path to growth.

There is less tension and resistance on electric than acoustic, therefore instead of it being impossible, it's easier which means you can do it correctly and more often which strengthens the necessary muscles and engrains muscle memory.
With your muscles strengthened, when you approach acoustic, it will still be harder and require some extra growth but not nearly as much as growing from scratch on acoustic.
PLUS by doing it on electric, you get feedback and know it's NOT you that is doing it wrong. It's just the resistance and that your hand isn't strong enough yet.

This is also true of bending.

For me, barring was one of the hardest/last techniques to acquire, not because it's hard to understand, but because it is so physically demanding. Yes, it does seem like "Gosh, I've been practicing this forever. I should be able to do this by now. I MUST be doing something wrong."
No, it just takes a loooong time for your hand to get strong enough to do it properly.
You are asking your body to do something it never does - extend your finger and thumb in a straight line and then CRUSH... where else in life do you do this - nowhere.

I would NOT recommend using improper technique to "cheat" (putting your middle finger on top of your index finger).. You'll never become strong the proper way and that will just engrain bad habbits.

The good new is, that while you are barring and don't have the strength to fret all 6 strings, the ones that don't sound get mutted - so... You can just keep playing your progressions and eventually your hand will get strong enough to where they will join in.

If you only have an acoustic and want to focus on growing faster at barring there are 4 things you can do:
1) Use good technique - imho, I wouldn't "cheat" by rolling my index and using the side.
It's very hard to move that shape fast.
I just make sure that my index is right behind the fret (so it has the maximum height of the string to press against) and looks/acts just like a Capo.
b) also, flatten your thumb out across the bottom of the neck (as opposed to the usual arch with just tip contact) - this will give you maximum pinching/crushing force in a flat line. As you get more advanced there are times where you don't want to do this due to speed and upcoming transitions, but, it IS the easiest way to get max crushing force.

Look at a Capo - Your index finger + thumb ARE the Capo. Do what it does.

2) Use lighter strings for awhile (this will make barring and bending easier)

3) Practice your barre chords closer to the middle of the neck - less resistance there, easier to CRUSH

4) You can play them as they are in your Songs, but you should set aside some time to just practice the Chord itself (no song, no metronome). Just barre/fret the chord and ring out each note. If any are muted, stay picking that string and practice CRUSHING the index finger down until it rings out.
This "Pinching" alone is what will strengthen those barring muscles.

--Personally, I chose to let the barre get there on its own because the muted strings really didn't hurt my Songs. I wanted to spend my time working focussing on things that are more obvious - vibrato, sliding, etc
Somewhere around a year or so, I noticed my barring was naturally happening all clean on it's own just because my left hand got stronger doing other things.

But one thing you SHOULD do regardless of approach is use proper technique: maximize crushing force, flatten that thumb, and slightly roll the finger.

Happy Jammin! :D

amitm9s6 01-12-2013 03:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by InfiniStudent
Not really. ;) You shouldn't deadlift 100 pounds just so it will be easy to lift 20...
It's easier where it's easier. And a gradual increase is a much faster path to growth.

There is less tension and resistance on electric than acoustic, therefore instead of it being impossible, it's easier which means you can do it correctly and more often which strengthens the necessary muscles and engrains muscle memory.
With your muscles strengthened, when you approach acoustic, it will still be harder and require some extra growth but not nearly as much as growing from scratch on acoustic.
PLUS by doing it on electric, you get feedback and know it's NOT you that is doing it wrong. It's just the resistance and that your hand isn't strong enough yet.

This is also true of bending.

For me, barring was one of the hardest/last techniques to acquire, not because it's hard to understand, but because it is so physically demanding. Yes, it does seem like "Gosh, I've been practicing this forever. I should be able to do this by now. I MUST be doing something wrong."
No, it just takes a loooong time for your hand to get strong enough to do it properly.
You are asking your body to do something it never does - extend your finger and thumb in a straight line and then CRUSH... where else in life do you do this - nowhere.

I would NOT recommend using improper technique to "cheat" (putting your middle finger on top of your index finger).. You'll never become strong the proper way and that will just engrain bad habbits.

The good new is, that while you are barring and don't have the strength to fret all 6 strings, the ones that don't sound get mutted - so... You can just keep playing your progressions and eventually your hand will get strong enough to where they will join in.

If you only have an acoustic and want to focus on growing faster at barring there are 4 things you can do:
1) Use good technique - as many have mentioned don't barre with the flat pads of your finger, "roll" your finger slightly to the right (toward the bridge which is where your other fingers will be fretting - not away from them)
BUT the primary goal is to maximize the strength of those two fingers crushing toward each other, so don't roll so far that it weakens your ability to crush.
No bone is better than losing pressure between those two "fingers".
b) also, flatten your thumb out across the bottom of the neck (as opposed to the usual arch with just tip contact) - this will give you maximum pinching/crushing force in a flat line. As you get more advanced there are times where you don't want to do this due to speed and upcoming transitions, but, it IS the easiest way to get max crushing force.

Look at a Capo - Your index finger + thumb ARE the Capo. Do what it does.

2) Use lighter strings for awhile (this will make barring and bending easier)

3) Practice your barre chords closer to the middle of the neck - less resistance there, easier to CRUSH

4) You can play them as they are in your Songs, but you should set aside some time to just practice the Chord itself (no song, no metronome). Just barre/fret the chord and ring out each note. If any are muted, stay picking that string and practice CRUSHING the index finger down until it rings out.
This "Pinching" alone is what will strengthen those barring muscles.

--Personally, I chose to let the barre get there on its own because the muted strings really didn't hurt my Songs. I wanted to spend my time working focussing on things that are more obvious - vibrato, sliding, etc
Somewhere around a year or so, I noticed my barring was naturally happening all clean on it's own just because my left hand got stronger doing other things.

But one thing you SHOULD do regardless of approach is use proper technique: maximize crushing force, flatten that thumb, and slightly roll the finger.

Happy Jammin! :D


Thank you very much for your comment!


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