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-   -   Pedal for distortion with tube amp. (http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1583519)

Musician_Cooter 01-18-2013 03:37 PM

Pedal for distortion with tube amp.
 
So, I ordered a Carvin V3M because I prefer a rack set up, and the gain on it is a little less than choice. I needed something for high gain applications, and I planned to boost this, but I don't know if I want to because previously, I was using a Metal Muff for my high gain, and it sounded absolutely choice. I'm debating on running the V3M on the clean channel because my possibly new project uses occasional cleans, so I need the clean channel anyways. I have a foot switch with the V3M, but like I said, the gain leaves alot to be desired.
I intend on rebiasing and retubing it with something to get a little better sound, but that will be long term.
My Question is, what is y'alls opinion on running a distortion in front of a tube amp's clean channel ?
I don't want to look like a n00b, or kill the integrity of the sound of a tube amp by doing this, but I need opinions ?

tubetime86 01-18-2013 03:40 PM

In my opinion a clean amp with a pedal will almost never (only say almost because you could put a tube preamp in a pedal and make me wrong) sound better than an amp's built in distortion. That said, I don't do high gain and rarely use any gain at all... So I'm far from an expert here.

The Metal Muff sounds like garbage to me, so I'm guessing you play a more raspy style of metal that is actually suited towards that sound... :shrug:

Offworld92 01-18-2013 03:48 PM

Sell the V3M and get a Mesa Dual Ractifier or an Engl E530 instead.

Makes no sense putting a dirt pedal in front of a V3M. If you want to do that, then the amp is just straight up not the right amp for you.

Deadpool_25 01-18-2013 03:52 PM

You absolutely can get quite good tones out of a good distortion pedal into a good, clean tube amp.

Here are a couple examples. Up to you whether you like the tone or not but you get the point.




dirtfoot 01-18-2013 03:55 PM

Look up DR Boogie(stands for Dual Rectifier Boogie). They're FET based and not expensive. This will diestroy the Metal Muff, mxr etc.

dirtfoot 01-18-2013 03:57 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadpool_25
You absolutely can get quite good tones out of a good distortion pedal into a good, clean tube amp.





this one is a good boogie as well

Blktiger0 01-19-2013 05:15 AM

My first question is, what were you running the Metal Muff through before you got the V3M?

Personally, when I got my Vengeance, it didin't sound how I expected at first once I got it home. I had been playing through a Marshall MG with a Hardwire TL-2, and was used to that sound, so hearing the Vengeance just sounded so drastically different. In addition, it really made a huge difference to have it cranked.

The things I would advise before you start selling anything is to spend some more time with it. After spending time with my amp and playing with it cranked, I realized that my issue was that I had it dialed completely wrong. I was using way mroe gain than I needed and wasn't EQing how I should.

Another question I have is: What cab are you using?

Your cab and speakers can make a world of difference. That was another part of my issue. First off, my speakers weren't broken in, and second, they weren't right for what I wanted. The right speakers mean everything.

Third question: Have you tried boosting it? Take an overdrive pedal (not a distortion pedal, something like a tubescreamer. It has to be an Overdrive pedal specifically) and set the level to max and the drive to zero and put it in the chain between your guitar and amp. Use this on the gain channel only. It'll boost the output and tighten up the sound in general. If it's not quite right, adjust the tone on the pedal and you can try increasing the drive (or gain or whatever the pedal labels it) a little bit.

Last, if it's the voicing, clarity, or response of the gain channel that turns you off from it, try different tubes. Stock tubes generally suck. Most of the time they're Shuguangs, which aren't very clear, are pretty lifeless, and have a dull sound in general. After putting JJ's in my amp, my jaw was dragging on the floor for about a week due to the difference. Good tubes can mean the difference between a fizzy, muddy, thin tone and a massive, growling, articulate tone.

If you try at least all of these but the last and it's still not getting it for you, then it's definitely time to sell the amp. Running a pedal into the clean channel of the amp defeats the purpose of having the amp, in my opinion.

losing battle 01-19-2013 05:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by tubetime86
In my opinion a clean amp with a pedal will almost never (only say almost because you could put a tube preamp in a pedal and make me wrong) sound better than an amp's built in distortion. That said, I don't do high gain and rarely use any gain at all... So I'm far from an expert here.

The Metal Muff sounds like garbage to me, so I'm guessing you play a more raspy style of metal that is actually suited towards that sound... :shrug:

Me and my turbo rat respectfully disagree. A good metal tone is achievable with a dirt pedal and an clean amp, it greatly depend on a an amps ability to take pedals and the said pedal itself. Even though that has been said you should just use your amp or trade it for the amp that will give you the tone you are looking for.

darkwolf291 01-19-2013 05:50 AM

Suhr Riot.
One of the best distortion pedals I've ever played

Blktiger0 01-19-2013 07:18 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkwolf291
Suhr Riot.
One of the best distortion pedals I've ever played


He's not looking for a distortion pedal, he's asking if using his Metal Muff into the clean channel of his V3M is a good alternative to the drive channel, which he isn't digging so far.

Musician_Cooter 01-19-2013 04:19 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by losing battle
Me and my turbo rat respectfully disagree. A good metal tone is achievable with a dirt pedal and an clean amp, it greatly depend on a an amps ability to take pedals and the said pedal itself. Even though that has been said you should just use your amp or trade it for the amp that will give you the tone you are looking for.


I spend another 5 or 6 hours with the amp, and you're right. I wasnt used to the tone I was getting out of the v3m. I dialed in a tone I liked that had plenty of gain.
I was previously using a metal muff through an Acoustic G120 head and a mutt cab (fender cab, with valveking speakers) that I picked up cheap for almost nothing.
Now however, I'm running my EC-1000 into the V3M with an ISP Decimator, and I'm getting a better tone now.
I also feel like the Rocktron Hush I was previously running seemed to take away a bit of my tone for some reason.

Blktiger0 01-19-2013 10:13 PM

It takes a little while to get everything broken in, including your own ears. As you play it more and more, you'll notice even more nuances in your tone that you didn't realize were there. Especially once you get some good tubes in there and get yout EQ tweaked how you like it. In addition, like I said, volumes makes a world of difference. If you're interested in what all goes into the difference between playing at whisper volumes and playing at gig levels, this thread is extremely useful, and was written by a very knowledgable, experienced member of the forums, who also makes amps (damn good ones, too!)

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/foru...d.php?t=1571081

It's definitely worth a read.

Maximus_2005 01-19-2013 10:20 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Musician_Cooter
So, I ordered a Carvin V3M because I prefer a rack set up, and the gain on it is a little less than choice. I needed something for high gain applications, and I planned to boost this, but I don't know if I want to because previously, I was using a Metal Muff for my high gain, and it sounded absolutely choice. I'm debating on running the V3M on the clean channel because my possibly new project uses occasional cleans, so I need the clean channel anyways. I have a foot switch with the V3M, but like I said, the gain leaves alot to be desired.
I intend on rebiasing and retubing it with something to get a little better sound, but that will be long term.
My Question is, what is y'alls opinion on running a distortion in front of a tube amp's clean channel ?
I don't want to look like a n00b, or kill the integrity of the sound of a tube amp by doing this, but I need opinions ?




I second experimenting with just the amp more.


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