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-   -   Cabinet with Woofer (http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1584532)

JELIFISH19 01-24-2013 06:46 AM

Cabinet with Woofer
 
So I'm getting a Schecter Hellcat VI and probably a Carvin V3M. But I'm not sure about the cabinet. I'm pretty lost about a cabinet. I like the sound of VIs through guitar amps and cabinets but it would be nice to get more lows too. I noticed that some cabinets like the ISP Vector 212 and the Schecter Depth Charge 412 have woofers in them to add lows to down-tuned instruments. Can you just replace a speaker in a 212 cabinet with a 12" woofer as long as it matches the impedance?

Kyleisthename 01-24-2013 11:17 AM

You're going to need a power amp to power the subwoofer.
If you look at the details of both the cabs you listed they are both powered by an internal amp.

Carl6661 01-24-2013 12:35 PM

If it's of any use, you don't really need any extra lows in down-tuned instruments. Even on my 8 string with a low F (and occasionally Eb), in mixing I high-pass at around 100hz, sometimes as low as 80 depending on the mix. Anything below that just sounds messy, gets in the way, and isn't needed at all.

I haven't played a cab with such a speaker in, but I imagine that in a band situation it would leave a lot to be desired because you would be fighting for roughly the same frequency range as the bass guitar, which usually fills out the low end. I would suggest looking at replacing one or both speakers, as those are a simple swap. I personally can't imagine why you would want a sub-woofer in a guitar cab, that just strikes me as complete over-kill. :shrug:

JELIFISH19 01-24-2013 03:54 PM

Well the Hellcat VI is technically a bass. It's a short-scale 6-string bass tuned E-E and it has Jaguar pickups. A lot of people recommend bass cabs but I'm afraid that they will be too dark for my liking. By woofer, I just meant a bass speaker. It doesn't have to be powered. So I'm talking about a 212 with a guitar speaker and a bass speaker.

Phil Starr 01-24-2013 03:57 PM

If you want to get decent well controlled bass any lower than say 100Hz you need to design your cab much more carefully than that. Each speaker needs to be matched to a certain volume of air in the cab and perhaps a reflex port tuned to the speaker. Just dropping an odd speaker in is unlikely to be successful for several technical reasons. On the plus side our earsaren't very sensitive at these frequencies and the harmonics (stuff above 80Hz) are probably more important in what you perceive as bass. you'd be better off looking for a cab or driver with the sound you want.

Carl6661 01-24-2013 06:27 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JELIFISH19
Well the Hellcat VI is technically a bass. It's a short-scale 6-string bass tuned E-E and it has Jaguar pickups. A lot of people recommend bass cabs but I'm afraid that they will be too dark for my liking. By woofer, I just meant a bass speaker. It doesn't have to be powered. So I'm talking about a 212 with a guitar speaker and a bass speaker.


That makes a lot more sense. I assumed you were wanting it for use with a normal downtuned guitar, that was what I was talking about. :haha:

JELIFISH19 01-25-2013 01:00 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Starr
If you want to get decent well controlled bass any lower than say 100Hz you need to design your cab much more carefully than that. Each speaker needs to be matched to a certain volume of air in the cab and perhaps a reflex port tuned to the speaker. Just dropping an odd speaker in is unlikely to be successful for several technical reasons. On the plus side our earsaren't very sensitive at these frequencies and the harmonics (stuff above 80Hz) are probably more important in what you perceive as bass. you'd be better off looking for a cab or driver with the sound you want.


Do you know how the Fender Bassman and Marshall bass amps handled this dilemma back in the days when they were actually used for bass? They didn't have the modern technology of bass cabinets back then. Were they just using the same speakers they used on the guitar amps? I know many of them were open back.

Phil Starr 01-25-2013 06:26 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JELIFISH19
Do you know how the Fender Bassman and Marshall bass amps handled this dilemma back in the days when they were actually used for bass? They didn't have the modern technology of bass cabinets back then. Were they just using the same speakers they used on the guitar amps? I know many of them were open back.

The Bassman wasn't very good at bass though many of the forums still rate them for guitar. Strangely I had a Marshall bass head which I used as a disco amp back in 1970, it blew the output transformer and I had to take it back to Marshall to but a new one, I was served by Jim Marshall who remembered the amp as it was a prototype. That's the point really, they didn't know what they were doing and were trying ideas out. The whole idea of using open backs for bass was kind of mad because even then we knew that the cut off frequency was dependent upon the path length from back of speaker to front of cab.

Yes pretty much the same speakers were used for everything, you tried them listened to the results and went with what sounded best. Our biggest problem was being loud enough. With paper formers and without high temp glues the glues melted and coils rubbed until the speakers burned out. 25W was normal for a 12" and they still didn't last. Tone was consistently sacrificed for volume. The then solution for bass was to use drivers that lacked treble and then pack lots of them into too small a box to create a bass hump somewhere around 100Hz.

Wish I'd kept that amp, it'd be worth a fortune now. 200W hand made by JM himself.


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