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-   -   ("Symphonic") Metalcore Intro [need help to expand] (http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1584558)

tac_sundome 01-24-2013 12:25 PM

("Symphonic") Metalcore Intro [need help to expand]
 
1 Attachment(s)
Hey there,

I wrote this piece a while ago, however I'm still stuck with it and fail to expand it into a full song. Any ideas, advices, feedback, help, critisism would be great!

EpiExplorer 01-24-2013 02:37 PM

Wow, capture the crown much?

tac_sundome 01-24-2013 03:57 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by EpiExplorer
Wow, capture the crown much?


I'm not a huge fan of them so I'll just take it as negative critic ;D

Taclite 01-24-2013 04:06 PM

I find that the intro is way too similiar to This is Halloween from The Nightmare Before Christmas.

EpiExplorer 01-24-2013 07:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taclite
I find that the intro is way too similiar to This is Halloween from The Nightmare Before Christmas.



I was totally gonna say that, even closer to the MManson version as well.

Ometh 01-24-2013 07:16 PM

lol

tac_sundome 01-24-2013 08:34 PM

I don't mind if they're alike. I like Danny Elfman (:

Anyway, this quickly turned out to be a "What song does this remind you of" thread so I guess I won't get any further with this. I'm a bit disappointed, expected a bit more from this board.

StrumThatFender 01-24-2013 08:57 PM

Lol, what the heck is going on here? Anyhow, you could put in a small interlude there. Maybe a couple of violins, one playing a new melody, another a variation of the original theme. Something like that. Then suddenly bring the guitars back in for an epic chorus section. The interlude should be pretty quiet and serene, then make the next bit really heavy for some contrast. Just an idea anyway.

Ometh 01-24-2013 09:05 PM

needs more tritones, not enough 2006

amonamarthmetal 01-24-2013 10:44 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by tac_sundome
I don't mind if they're alike. I like Danny Elfman (:

Anyway, this quickly turned out to be a "What song does this remind you of" thread so I guess I won't get any further with this. I'm a bit disappointed, expected a bit more from this board.

You shouldn't expect much from UG. It's comprised of elitists who hate metalcore and line 6 spider amps. You posting a generic metalcore piece was a red flag asking to be trolled. One thing I would suggest is add a four bar to the riff the 3 bars and repeat makes it sound unresolved.

Dregen 01-24-2013 11:16 PM

really generic. i wouldn't have a problem with that, considering i do actually enjoy a lot of bands people would call generic, but it's just... boring. way too 'safe'. you really do need some kind of build up instead of straight up chugging on the same chord. the melody stays in the same range, and it's really too predictable. make some drum fills. experiment with new chords and shapes. new melodies and straying into higher and/or lower notes. counterpoint. fuck around with the rhythm - polymetrics, variations in speed. something. right now, you need recognize and avoid where your mind is telling you to go because this is pretty stale.

i don't mean this as an offense, the first stuff i wrote was way worse than this. i'm also not saying don't write (nu)metalcore, but make it interesting and experiment.

BloodReverence 01-25-2013 02:41 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by amonamarthmetal
You shouldn't expect much from UG.


Yeah, I disagree.

If it wasn't for you, Ometh, and Epi, there would be no trolling in this subforum. You guys truly belong to the pit, and it's actually extremely annoying having to see you guys here doing nothing constructive.

I don't frequently comment due to the fact that, if I don't like the style, I don't bother commenting on something without constructive criticism to give.

Srsly, get over your biases and just give some actual crit for once. You're starting to sound like the idiots on the front page reviewing bands they hate just for something to do, then giving them negative reviews just cause they aren't "true progressive-polka-grunge-death-metal" or whatever the ****.

Truthfully, if I knew any of the mods on this forum, I'd be reporting you guys by now.

As for the song, I think that if you shifted the violins up an octave, it'd sound a lot better. After that part I'd suggest moving into a faster section with more upbeat sounds going on, but that's just me.

EpiExplorer 01-25-2013 07:52 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodReverence
Yeah, I disagree.

If it wasn't for you, Ometh, and Epi, there would be no trolling in this subforum. You guys truly belong to the pit, and it's actually extremely annoying having to see you guys here doing nothing constructive.

I don't frequently comment due to the fact that, if I don't like the style, I don't bother commenting on something without constructive criticism to give.

Srsly, get over your biases and just give some actual crit for once. You're starting to sound like the idiots on the front page reviewing bands they hate just for something to do, then giving them negative reviews just cause they aren't "true progressive-polka-grunge-death-metal" or whatever the ****.

Truthfully, if I knew any of the mods on this forum, I'd be reporting you guys by now.

As for the song, I think that if you shifted the violins up an octave, it'd sound a lot better. After that part I'd suggest moving into a faster section with more upbeat sounds going on, but that's just me.



Problem 1: Learn what trolling is, you have no clue. Not sure I can vouch for Ometh on this one.

Problem 2: Its a generic metalcore peice, I gave up being constructive with those at least 2 years ago.

Problem 3: Thats why I'm not reviewing for a while.

Problem 4: Comparing sounds is a perfectly legitimate criticism. It shows the strength of your material, as well as showing the pitfalls of the other band you're comparing to, and if the song you're originally comparing has the same pitfalls. In this case, sounding even remotely similar to This is Halloween just makes the entire song sound goofy.

Problem 5: I do genuinely help people here, and probably about 6 or so times now (probably more, but I dont keep count), people have been genuinely thankful for whatever altered version I upload or whatever things I suggest. I could this time if OP wanted me to, but there's no accounting for if he'd like what I have to suggest.

BloodReverence 01-25-2013 10:16 AM

1. You are the lesser of the 3 evils, but you still are trolling either way.
2. Then why comment on something like this?
3. Noticed that. Might as well just not comment then.
4. The way you compared them sounded more like trolling than anything. If you made a reference comparing them instead of, "xxx band much?" or "this sounds like a ripoff of" you would sound less like a troll. Wording makes a difference.
5. I have seen you help people but I've seen you do you fair share of ****ing around to others expenses as well.

Ometh 01-25-2013 10:24 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodReverence
If it wasn't for you, Ometh, and Epi, there would be no trolling in this subforum.

Shit, you made me feel important, thank you :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by EpiExplorer
Problem 1: Learn what trolling is, you have no clue. Not sure I can vouch for Ometh on this one.

Yeah, I wasn't trolling, it does sound generic as hell and pretty tame. I'd give a proper crit but I don't really have the time atm, maybe next week? I'll even review that other "thrash" song thread I posted in like a week ago or smth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EpiExplorer
Problem 2: Its a generic metalcore peice, I gave up being constructive with those at least 2 years ago.

This is bad but I'm also guilty of this. I'll occasionally post a huge crit point out stuff to improve upon and such, but I'm lazy lol.

Also, it's pretty dumb to call me out on not reviewing anything for a while since most of my normal reviews look like this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ometh
I promissed a review, but I'm a lazy sod. Sorry :(

Gonna crit a random song: clicked randomly with my eyes closed and it opened At the top of the world, so here we go.
Nice keyz in the beginning, digging the happy progression. The single note riff reminds me of Fear Factory, but I don't really like it, although it fits. It has a nice progression though. At 18 it felt a bit way too dissonant: while I like it, you should change the F's in the synths to E's: it works, and it sounds nice. Drums at 19 are really weird, but what the hell do I know about drumming anyway. Digging the extra riff work at 21/22. Riff leads into the first verse nicelly. The vocal line is a bit weird in the beginning, but it turns nice at 35. Nice vocal break leads into the previous riff, doesn't fill tiring. Digging the happy string skipping riff at 51 with the clean vocals over it. A nice, simplistic solo, based on the vocal line follows, and it fits perfectly. Then I hear open chugs and I'm like "on no..." and then the tritones come and I'm like "Ewewewewewewewww". Fortunately the breakdown is short, and it leads into a previous rhythmin riff that leads into the last chorus. Really dig the vocal break at 92, and the distorted riff being played in clean this time. Wish the drums were different in this part.
Overall the song is very uplifting and nice, but the break feels unnecessary and a bit cliche: I mean, most of the riffing in this song is already very rhythmic, so there's no need IMO. Overall 7.5/10: I would rate it higher withouth the break and if it was longer.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ometh
Let's start this shit up.


The intro is generic, but it gets the job done. I dig the sweep.
I dig the new harmony on the first riff, it's pretty coo'. Don't really agree with the blast beat: using the crash like that makes the drums sound way to chaotic for the riff. From 21 it sounds like modern tech death/deathcore, but it's not bad tbh. The next blast section is pretty cool: dig the more dissonant chord. The next sectiomn just screams The Faceless. Dig the little fills at 75 and 89: they break up the song quite a bit, but the fit nicely. The section from 91 is a bit odd, but I dig it. Nice blasts and chords. Reintro it's coo', doesn't feel tiring. The first two bars from the next section sound a bit deathcorish with that key change, but the rest makes up for it. A variation of the intro theme, at a slower tempo: sounds good, except the chords at 169: they clash a bit too much. The ending is abrupt, so I assume it isn't finished yet.
Overall, it's pretty standard modern tech death, with some occasional dissonance that makes it stand out a bit from the crowd. It isn't extremely technical or wanky, that's a good thing. 6.5/10


I also reviewed a full album liek twice so u got nuthin on me brah

amonamarthmetal 01-25-2013 10:49 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodReverence
Yeah, I disagree.

If it wasn't for you, Ometh, and Epi, there would be no trolling in this subforum. You guys truly belong to the pit, and it's actually extremely annoying having to see you guys here doing nothing constructive.

I don't frequently comment due to the fact that, if I don't like the style, I don't bother commenting on something without constructive criticism to give.

Srsly, get over your biases and just give some actual crit for once. You're starting to sound like the idiots on the front page reviewing bands they hate just for something to do, then giving them negative reviews just cause they aren't "true progressive-polka-grunge-death-metal" or whatever the ****.

Truthfully, if I knew any of the mods on this forum, I'd be reporting you guys by now.

As for the song, I think that if you shifted the violins up an octave, it'd sound a lot better. After that part I'd suggest moving into a faster section with more upbeat sounds going on, but that's just me.

Tl;dr

tac_sundome 01-25-2013 04:00 PM

Thanks for the ideas guys, I have actually more clue now on where to go from this point. Resolving tension seem to be a problem for me, I've posted another song like a week ago and someone noted the same problem. So thanks for the helpful posts, it's actually really useful.

Ometh; I'm not trying to make something unique or new, or even impressive, because I know my limits as a musican. I'm here to improve and to hear other musicans opinions, which I think is the first step. I understand that we are on a different level when it comes to writing and that it can be quite frustrating seeing works like this over and over again. But, we are trying to achieve the same goal; to write good music, express ourselves, etc. So you should atleast feel some empathy that if you can't say something constructive why say anything at all? It's just pointless.

frankibo 01-26-2013 06:37 AM

It's sort of well written but at the same time it's just about the most painfully generic piece I've ever seen on here. It's almost every metalcore cliché in one song.

guitar_jew 01-26-2013 06:58 AM

Quote:
I'm not trying to make something unique or new, or even impressive, because I know my limits as a musican.


Sounds like laziness to me. If you put your mind to it, you can do great things- instead you 'know your limits' and did something we've all heard before.

The only reason UG is so full of anti-metalcore elitism is (in my opinion, I don't claim to speak for anyone but myself) because as musicians, we lean toward music connoisseur-ism, and listen to A LOT of music by different people. We're naturally going to be frustrated and cynical towards music that is blatantly derivative of other works. Metalcore these days is the nu-metal of the early 00s, the post-grunge of the late 90s, and the hair metal of the 80s. Metalcore musicians should get some self-esteem and try to push their boundaries. It's pretty telling that the most progressive, engaging metalcore band these days (again imho) is Converge, and they've been doing their shtick for 20 years.

I thought we had something with djent, but then that went and got boring, too.

Sorry if I come off as douchey, but the stagnation of this genre has been bugging me for weeks now.

/soapbox

EpiExplorer 01-26-2013 07:28 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by guitar_jew
Sounds like laziness to me. If you put your mind to it, you can do great things- instead you 'know your limits' and did something we've all heard before.

The only reason UG is so full of anti-metalcore elitism is (in my opinion, I don't claim to speak for anyone but myself) because as musicians, we lean toward music connoisseur-ism, and listen to A LOT of music by different people. We're naturally going to be frustrated and cynical towards music that is blatantly derivative of other works. Metalcore these days is the nu-metal of the early 00s, the post-grunge of the late 90s, and the hair metal of the 80s. Metalcore musicians should get some self-esteem and try to push their boundaries. It's pretty telling that the most progressive, engaging metalcore band these days (again imho) is Converge, and they've been doing their shtick for 20 years.

I thought we had something with djent, but then that went and got boring, too.

Sorry if I come off as douchey, but the stagnation of this genre has been bugging me for weeks now.

/soapbox



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