UG Community @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com

UG Community @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com (http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/index.php)
-   Musician Talk (http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=8)
-   -   What Key are these modes in? (http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1584570)

SReed87 01-24-2013 01:09 PM

What Key are these modes in?
 
Are these based off the Major Or Minor scale? What key are they in? I need help from somebody to explain these modes below to me and how i can use them? Having trouble grasping the concept...

Myshadow46_2 01-24-2013 01:10 PM

Modes are not in keys.

steven seagull 01-24-2013 01:16 PM

In all honesty those diagrams are useless - a bunch of unlabelled dots with no context ie telling you what you're playing or where you're playing it are pretty much meaningless, you're not going to learn anything from the "information" that's been presented there.

I'm not surprised you're struggling to make sense of it, because in that format there's nothing of any value to make sense of.

As far as shapes go they're ALL THE SAME shape, just bits of it, and also the same as both the major AND minor scales - and a shape alone doesn't tell you anything. Without some background information, meat to put on those bones, you've got nothing - you need to also be looking at the notes involved, the intervals between them and, most important of all, the SOUNDS you're working with

Hail 01-24-2013 01:40 PM


SReed87 01-24-2013 01:59 PM

Alright :(

mdc 01-24-2013 02:03 PM

^ TS, what's the interval between A and C?

mdc 01-24-2013 02:10 PM

Dude, hurry up. If you can't answer that, you're DEFINITELY not ready for modes.

End of.

rob904 01-24-2013 02:53 PM

It's a third!

mdc 01-24-2013 02:55 PM

Dude, what are you doing? Anyway, what type?

crazysam23_Atax 01-24-2013 02:56 PM

1) Stop treating modes as scales. Modes are NOT scales. You need to understand that there's two types of music here: tonal (which is great for scales and chords and such, but allows you to play any notes you choose) and modal (which ONLY includes the notes of a particular mode).

2) Also, box shapes are bad. Treating anything like it fits in a box is bad. You're much better off understanding what the intervals mean than memorizing some box shape. You open so much more if you see the guitar as a horizontal thing (meaning, you can play any key, scale, mode rather than a box shape). Seeing the guitar as a bunch of different boxes is so...limiting.

3) They're in any damn key you want. If you really must use those box shapes, then just pick a position on the fretboard and play. As I said above, you'd be much better off understanding the intervals of those modes and understanding that modal and tonal music are completely different!



Imho, purely modal music is limiting as well. In my compositions, people can probably hear a "flavor" of the modes. However, it's tonal music. Why? Because I don't ONLY play the notes that fit the 7 intervals of a particular mode.
Why should I be limited by something as stupid as the fact that I cannot play a 5th interval in that particular mode? I shouldn't. So, I fake being modal, because it gives me more musical freedom and I like the sound of it.

mdc 01-24-2013 05:03 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hail

Lol.

Also, TS, to answer your question, they are in the key of ghey. That's for the majority's benefit, though.

I personally like them. They're cool.

Sleepy__Head 01-25-2013 04:17 AM

Come on mdc, you can do better than that. Ghey minor, or ghey major?

chainsawguitar 01-25-2013 06:27 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazysam23_Atax
1) Stop treating modes as scales. Modes are NOT scales.


Well, that's a confusing thing to say! They're clearly scales, they're just not "in a key".

Scales are essentially a group of notes with a tonic (aka "root note"). Modes are easily included in that definition. Just because there are certain scales (major scale, nat. minor, harmonic minor, and melodic minor) that form a certain system of "keys", it doesn't mean that any other scale you can find somehow doesn't get called a "scale" at all.

Sorry, but if we're going to correct someone, lets not just be introducing even more confusion ;)

Sleepy__Head 01-25-2013 07:43 AM

Modes are not scales. Keys are not scales.
Neither scales, nor modes, nor keys have root notes.

Scales are a set of tones ordered by pitch. Scales have no tonic, they just have a start note and an end note. Any series of any number of pitches ordered by pitch is a scale.

A key is a set of tones where one tone - the tonic - is the tone that all other tones in the key gravitate towards. This tone is established as the most important tone by means of functional harmony.
A mode is a set of tones and a set of characteristic melodies. The mode is established by means of these melodies rather than by functional harmony.

Root notes relate to chords formed from three or more tones. The root note of these chord is the note that the chord is built on by the process of stacking thirds. The root note is not necessarily the lowest tone in the chord (the bass note).

Ahteh 01-25-2013 11:27 AM

I'm not an expert but I think the confusion stems from the interpration of modes as scales that's common in modern music theory.

Wikipedia:

Quote:
The modern Lydian musical scale is a rising pattern of pitches comprising three whole tones, a semitone, two more whole tones, and a final semitone. This sequence of pitches roughly describes the fifth of the eight Gregorian (church) modes, known as Mode V or the authentic mode on F, theoretically using B♮ but in practice more commonly featuring B♭


So basically you have the Lydian mode (example) which isn't really useful to most people, and then the Lydian scale which is more relevant to tonal theory and which I think it's fair to say is a useful tool, especially if you aren't too comfortable with theory and just want to have more fun jamming/writing.

Tempoe 01-25-2013 11:48 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazysam23_Atax
1)
box shapes are bad.


While I agree knowing the intervals is way more important, all of the shapes in OP are essential to learn well IMO. They're the most efficient way over the strings a given position, there's and almost unlimited amount of licks that can be composed easily and efficiently in any key, as well as all the chordal possibilities. To dismiss them as "bad" is a bit rough.

Sleepy__Head 01-25-2013 12:06 PM

I think I'd agree with that. Box shapes (like CAGED chords, stock arpeggios, &c.) have a purpose - to get you started. If you're not that bothered about being the world's best guitarist and just want to jam with a few mates, or play along to some backing tracks they're just fine at what they do. If you're interested in taking things a bit further then you can supersede the box-shapes by learning and applying theory.

Hail 01-25-2013 12:48 PM

i want to be angry that people think modal scales are useful (or scales at all) but i'm so happy we've made it this far, MT. i think i'm tearing up a little

macashmack 01-25-2013 12:49 PM

After spending a few days in the pit, I can say that this is a great thread to come back to MT to :)

crazysam23_Atax 01-25-2013 01:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempoe
While I agree knowing the intervals is way more important, all of the shapes in OP are essential to learn well IMO. They're the most efficient way over the strings a given position, there's and almost unlimited amount of licks that can be composed easily and efficiently in any key, as well as all the chordal possibilities. To dismiss them as "bad" is a bit rough.

You can do a whole lot more by getting out of box shapes though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleepy__Head
I think I'd agree with that. Box shapes (like CAGED chords, stock arpeggios, &c.) have a purpose - to get you started.

I would agree with this, I suppose. But if you continue using them after that "getting started" point, you're not doing it right. Stagnation in musical learning is never good, as there's always more to learn.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:41 PM.

Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.