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-   -   Narrowed it down to 2 amps.. i think. Advice? (http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1584841)

bj_squeelie 01-25-2013 11:34 PM

Narrowed it down to 2 amps.. i think. Advice?
 
Okay guys so right now I'm playing through a carvin x100b 100w reissue head. I love it. Very versatile amp, gets me any sound I want except... you guessed it, those searing lead sounds. It just doesn't QUITE have enough oomph to scream like I want it or do the chugga chugga. I keep the gain on 9 with a boost and it just falls short.. I plan on selling it, but I haven't decided 100% on its replacement.. I think I've narrowed it down to 2 amps.

Either, 5150iii (new, haven't seen ANY used floating around) or a VHT Pitbull 50cl (there's one used at my local GC for $699ish?). Haven't got a chance to play the 5150.. none at GC.. will check the other local guitar store to see if they have one I can play. I'm going back to play the pittbull with my own guitar tomorrow since the left handed ones at the store leaved a lot to be desired..

Essentially what I'm looking for:
Articulate searing leads, nice tight bass. Chugga chugga capable. Really looking for some good clean sounds as well. My problem is, both of these amps seem like they can do everything I'm asking for..

Opinions? Also open to other amp suggestions, I'm willing to go used obviously but if it is used price limit is probably around $700 because I can't do financing on used stuff ):
If new my price limit is <$1000. Definitely not more.

I live in Nebraska if that helps.

Will be playing it through a 2x12 custom built cab with WGS V30 and G65.

Thanks in advance guys.

Bladed-Vaults 01-26-2013 12:38 AM

I own the 5153.

and chugga chugga is the description here man. all 3 whitechapel guys use this thing on stage (saw em live and their stage set up so idc what people say they use online)
And the guitarists for Revocation uses it as well. and his leads are becoming legendary.

very tight amp. no need for a boost. its actually the only amp of my 4 high gainers that i dont run my OD pedal in front of. cuz it just does not need one.

channel two will take care of anything you miss about your carvin.. its a great drive channel for rock and 80s glam sounds.

cleans are unsurpassed in high gain terratory... well. thats up to debate my new vengeance does super nice cleans but they are more jazzy than acoustic.

if you have the pocket power to buy this amp I wouldnt pass it up. and you wont be dissapointed.

D2BII 01-26-2013 01:18 AM

I actually own the VHT-era Fryette Pittbull 50CL. It's an excellent amplifier that should be able to do what you want. It has a tight bass response, and it also has awesome note clarity with chords. No matter how much gain you use, you could hear all of the notes in a chord.

I would suggest that you try it out first, though, as it seems that Fryette amplifiers are an acquired taste. Most complaints about Fryette amps are that they're "dry." However, I don't really think the 50CL is as "dry" as people make it seem. It's certainly articulate, and while there are amplifiers that have higher gain saturation, it's not really lacking in that aspect either. The 50CL in particular has a few features on it (such as class A and Enhance mode) which could help you toward achieving a more saturated tone.

Additionally, keep in mind that the 50CL isn't set up like traditional amplifiers. There is no "clean" or "dirty" channels. Just a red and a green channel. You could do whatever you want with either of those channels. You could set them both as clean, both as dirty, whatever. If you want to set up so that you have a lead channel and a heavy rhythm channel, you'll have to use your guitar's volume to get a clean tone. It's very possible, from my experience, but I'd advise that you try it out yourself if you can. For that price, it's an absolute steal, IMO.

JAHellraiser 01-26-2013 03:59 AM

wow it really does sound like both of these amps do what you want :haha: so what you'll probably have to do is figure which sound you like better, and then figure out which features you like better on each amp.

Blktiger0 01-26-2013 05:22 AM

I'm going to give the 5153 a +1 as well.

Excellent amp.

If it doesn't tickle your fancy in terms of voicing, the Egnater Vengeance covers the same ground, but is darker.

Really, though, the 5153 will likely be exactly what you want.

bj_squeelie 01-26-2013 11:18 AM

Thanks for the responses guys. I'm going back to play the VHT today, and I'll try out the vengeance while I'm there. the other store didn't have the 5150 in stock.. so I don't know if I'll be able to play it first which I'm somewhat weary of.

Any other thoughts on the Pitbull? The voicing seems different than anything else I've ever played, which kind of entices me.. but I don't want to get it and decide it's not the right sound. I expect to play it for quite a while today.

BoneAndDream 01-26-2013 11:52 AM

try an original 5150/6505 (not the II/+)

i tried the 5150III a few times at 2 different guitar centers, it was lacking in the balls department and i didn't like its high end

bj_squeelie 01-26-2013 12:03 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoneAndDream
try an original 5150/6505

i tried the 5150III a few times at 2 different guitar centers, it was lacking in the balls department and i didn't like its high end


I had a 6505+ 112 for a while. It was okay for a while, got tired of having lackluster cleans and it just wasn't what I was looking for leads wise. I've heard the new 5150's are quite different. Really would like to try one out first tho.

BoneAndDream 01-26-2013 12:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bj_squeelie
I had a 6505+ 112 for a while. It was okay for a while, got tired of having lackluster cleans and it just wasn't what I was looking for leads wise. I've heard the new 5150's are quite different. Really would like to try one out first tho.



yeah the head and cab is better than a combo, in my experience at least

the 5150 and 6505 are the exact same amp with a different name, if you didn't know.

even just stock they're leagues above the 6505+ 112

sea` 01-26-2013 12:11 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoneAndDream
the 5150 and 6505 are the exact same amp with a different name, if you didn't know.

even just stock they're leagues above the 6505+ 112

The 6505+ 112 actually sounds better at usable volumes due to the low wattage. It saturates more earlier on. It is also biased hotter which makes it sound different - a mod many people who own the "real thing" do to make it sound better, funny how that works. The actual circuitry and voicing between the amps is pretty much identical. It's for all intents and purposes the same amp, at a lower wattage.

Consider a Vox AC15 vs AC30. Is the AC15 an "inferior" amp? Not really. It certainly breaks up faster and doesn't have quite as much volume, but as anyone who has played an AC30 can attest, that thing is louder than some Marshall high-gain stacks with three times the wattage. If you don't need quite so clean cleans at quite as high volumes, there's no real downside to going for a lower wattage amp.

If you have a 6505+ 112 you may as well just convert it to a head and stick it in front of a cabinet. Don't let your e-peen convince you that 60W is "inadequate". You can play a goddamn stadium with this amp and still have volume to spare. You can't compare a combo amp with one speaker to an amp going through a 4x12, or even two amps through two different 4x12s - the differences are more likely to come from the cab than the amp.

The 5150 III actually is voiced differently and has a smoother gain character to it, making it a somewhat different amp from the original 5150. And of course, the clean channel is basically a Fender clean, which has a completely different character. Doesn't really make it "better" in any way, though, just another option if you feel you need it.

Another funny thing - I see people constantly praising the 50W version of the 5150 III over the 100W version, almost always playing it through a 4x12. What does that tell you now? That's not because the Peavey 60W is a "worse" amp with "stripped down" tone, it's because of the cab.

Sorry for going a bit off topic, but I just want to reiterate: stop judging gear by looking at spec sheets, "made in China", whether it has a bigger number attached to it, etc. In a blind test, with identical cabs, most people would be unable to correctly identify any 5150/6505 (Plus, III, whatever) from any other.

BoneAndDream 01-26-2013 12:23 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sea`
It's for all intents and purposes the same amp, at a lower wattage.



so you're telling me if you connected a 6505+112 and a 5150/6505 each to an identical 4x12, they would sound the same? do that and post a video.

then we'll see :rolleyes:

sea` 01-26-2013 12:27 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoneAndDream
so you're telling me if you connected a 6505+112 and a 5150/6505 each to an identical 4x12, they would sound the same? do that and post a video.

then we'll see :rolleyes:

They won't sound completely identical because of the hotter bias and the different number of tubes. Did you even read my post? The point wasn't that they will sound "exactly the same" but that the supposition that one is "inferior" somehow, that the head version is "leagues" above. That kind of statement demands qualification.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoneAndDream
I have been playing for about 3 years now. I am pretty good i would say, i can cover difficult songs and learn some hard solos, fast complicated rhythms etc

but the problem is, i can't make anything of my own

when i sit down to play i dont have anything to "say" through my playing, i can't just feel music and play it. whenever i try to solo, i end up running up and down the c minor scale, or any other scale over and over in triplets, just repeating the same thing over and over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoneAndDream
how would it compare to an original 5150/6505?

what are the tonal differences?

this is my dilemma right now. i was going to get a 5150 but i played my friend's 6505+ and it was great

Yeah, sounds like you are an expert on tone, gear and guitar playing.

BoneAndDream 01-26-2013 12:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sea`
They won't sound completely identical because of the hotter bias and the different number of tubes. Did you even read my post? The point wasn't that they will sound "exactly the same" but that the supposition that one is "inferior" somehow, that the head version is "leagues" above. That kind of statement demands qualification.


in MY eyes it IS inferior

that is my opinion, anything to do with tone is completely subjective

i disagree with yours, but i respect it

:-)

by the way, those posts you found were when i hadn't made my decision yet on an amp. :shrug:

and my skill level as a guitar player has no bearing on MY tone preferences


sorry for the flaming that was going on in your thread, OP

sea` 01-26-2013 12:50 PM

Test time: tell me, was this recorded with a 6505, 6505+, 5150 III or 6505+ 112?

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/10680698/M...pture_remix.mp3

BoneAndDream 01-26-2013 12:57 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sea`
Test time: tell me, was this recorded with a 6505, 6505+, 5150 III or 6505+ 112?

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/10680698/M...pture_remix.mp3



is that your playing? i like it


i'm going to guess 6505+ 112.

sea` 01-26-2013 01:22 PM

Roland Cube 60 on the Dual Rectifier channel.

bj_squeelie 01-26-2013 01:24 PM

Yes, from what I've heard the 5153 is voiced quite differently and a lot smoother than the Peaveys, which is what attracted me back to it. The 6505+ 112 wasn't right for me. (which I played through the same cab that I still have by the way.. those stock Sheffield speakers really are garbage). The 5150/6505 originals are just out of the question. The cleans are "passable" at best for me.

Also agree that most of the problems people have with the 6505+ 112 can be fixed with a good cabinet (NOT just a speaker swap) I find that the enclosure of the speaker is too thin to give enough good bottom end boom that the amp needs. If that's the tone you're after anyway. It just didn't quite cut it for me.


*EDIT* ^^ Lmao. I could have told you in the first 5 seconds it wasn't any of those amps. I couldn't coax that clean(ish) sound out of the 6505+ with all the chorus pedals in the world.

BoneAndDream 01-26-2013 01:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bj_squeelie
Yes, from what I've heard the 5153 is voiced quite differently and a lot smoother than the Peaveys, which is what attracted me back to it. The 6505+ 112 wasn't right for me. (which I played through the same cab that I still have by the way.. those stock Sheffield speakers really are garbage). The 5150/6505 originals are just out of the question. The cleans are "passable" at best for me.

Also agree that most of the problems people have with the 6505+ 112 can be fixed with a good cabinet (NOT just a speaker swap) I find that the enclosure of the speaker is too thin to give enough good bottom end boom that the amp needs. If that's the tone you're after anyway. It just didn't quite cut it for me.


*EDIT* ^^ Lmao. I could have told you in the first 5 seconds it wasn't any of those amps. I couldn't coax that clean(ish) sound out of the 6505+ with all the chorus pedals in the world.



any specific bands tone you would like to get close to, OP?

bj_squeelie 01-26-2013 01:43 PM

Not particularly, more trying to find my own sound I can expand on but I need an amp with the qualities mentioned. Some bands tone's I really like (as far metal/metalcore/whatever) are Trivium, For The Fallen Dreams, Parkway Drive (6505's I think?), lead tones of Falling In Reverse (who I know uses EVH amps).

But like I said, really not going for a particular band's tone.

sea` 01-26-2013 07:28 PM

Laney Ironheart is well worth investigating. The 60W version is more than enough volume you'll ever have use for, and it's in the $700 range. The clean channel on it is quite good, although the gain characteristic on it is a bit on the scooped side. Definitely more versatile than any 5150 derivative.


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