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-   -   please tell my homie why modes are dumb and useless (http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1588781)

Spaztikko 02-18-2013 04:30 AM

please tell my homie why modes are dumb and useless
 
he's being a knob. Can the community band together to make him realise the error of his ways? He may have downs.

Here's a few texts he's been sending me, so you can see where he's at.

Quotes:
look, i know my shit, okay. And if there are professionals and teachers who have the same view as me then there must be some substance in what im saying.

Why would everyone, guitar teachers and players included, be wrong about scales being derived from modes? And maybe in your opinion scales are useless if you have a good ear, but i think they are good. Especially for soloing, where you can base a recurring melody on a scale

Referencing alan's scale article

d remember what that dude said, the one who was talking about scales with random notes and accidentals and shit and giving them a name generated name? Well, its essentially that with modes, he even said that. You derive the scale from the mode. I dont care that we have been over this a million times, thats my philosophy and im staying with that because it makes the most sense to me, especially how people use them today. Or say they do.

End quotes. If you could also post some credentials for you know, shits and giggles or whatever that'd be nice. Because I want to punch him and his head in the sand.

Thank you, everyone.

Sloop John D 02-18-2013 04:39 AM

I think you should stop getting so worked up over it and let your friend learn music in a way that is useful and easy for him to understand, even if it includes a study of modes.

Spaztikko 02-18-2013 04:46 AM

He's being wrong. That's not learning.

Jehannum 02-18-2013 05:05 AM

To judge what he says I'd have to look at some examples of his modal music. Or what he thinks is modal music.

supersac 02-18-2013 05:15 AM

where is he being wrong exactly?

Spaztikko 02-18-2013 05:16 AM

Yngwie, and when he sick shredz in phrygian in e minor.
That level.

Spaztikko 02-18-2013 05:18 AM

xiaoxi, aeolianwolf, jazz rock, freepower, i beseech thee.

TommyGunUk 02-18-2013 05:24 AM

Im the mode-mingler in question, here. Regardless of how deep my face is in the sand, i reckon modes are useable. And no, I dont get my modes from Yngwie Malmsteen, I got a sheet in my music class about modes where they were used as particular types of scales, and examples of them, which is where I learned about them from

Spaztikko 02-18-2013 05:31 AM

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/less...s_are_easy.html

Was about as useful as your sheet.

TommyGunUk 02-18-2013 05:39 AM

And so, with banter like this carrying on for like, 3 months, we appeal to the internet

Sloop John D 02-18-2013 05:46 AM

I think you guys should let it go.

Spaztikko 02-18-2013 06:17 AM

I think you're adopted and haven't helped anyone.

Tommy, read the stickys.

AlanHB 02-18-2013 06:20 AM

Wassup thanks for reading my article, and for picking up on my point about the use of modal names was as useful as a random word generator.

But that said you can call certain patterns of accidentals modes if you like. You can also call them ballsacks. However in a minor or major key they will function neither as modes nor ballsacks.

Sloop John D 02-18-2013 06:47 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaztikko
I think you're adopted and haven't helped anyone.

Tommy, read the stickys.


In the study of music, there are many methods, techniques, and theories that a person can learn. Depending on what you're interested in playing, some of these techniques and theories can be highly relevant, and some may be completely irrelevant, but I would hesitate to say that any of it is completely useless.

If a study of modes is helping your friend wrap his head around music and play some interesting stuff, then I don't see the point in discouraging him.

Jehannum 02-18-2013 07:03 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyGunUk
Im the mode-mingler in question, here. Regardless of how deep my face is in the sand, i reckon modes are useable. And no, I dont get my modes from Yngwie Malmsteen, I got a sheet in my music class about modes where they were used as particular types of scales, and examples of them, which is where I learned about them from


Modes are more than scales. They have to be used in a restricted way to achieve a modal sound. The restrictions are:

i. you have to establish and maintain the correct modal tonic (or there will be no modal sound)

ii. you can't alter the notes of the mode (without destroying the modal sound)

i. is difficult to achieve because every mode shares its notes with a relative key which invariably has a stronger pull to its tonic. If the tonic changes there's no modality; you're just in a key. This rules out complex harmony because most harmonic progression leads to a key centre. You're limited to drones and vamps.

There are a couple of wrong ideas often associated with modes which are so common I think it's useful to give them names:

i. the relative modes fallacy is that you can solo a different mode of the same scale over each chord of a progression. E.g. C Ionian of C major, F Lydian over F major, etc. in a I-IV-V progression. This is wrong. There is no modal usage here whatsoever. You'll just be playing in C major.

ii. the parallel modes fallacy: you can play modally over any progression in a key. Wrong. Whatever solo you'll play the music will be in the key of the harmony - with accidentals.

AlanHB 02-18-2013 07:45 AM

^^^ I wrote up something similar here http://profile.ultimate-guitar.com/AlanHB/blog/100719/

travislausch 02-18-2013 09:12 AM

I'm not 100% sure what we're arguing here, but regardless of what comes first, modes are just as useful as any other piece of music theory: only as useful as the imagination containing that knowledge.

If learning modes will expand his creativity and give him a new voice with which to make better music than he has, why stop him? Because of your personal prejudices?

TheHydra 02-18-2013 09:25 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by travislausch
I'm not 100% sure what we're arguing here, but regardless of what comes first, modes are just as useful as any other piece of music theory: only as useful as the imagination containing that knowledge.

If learning modes will expand his creativity and give him a new voice with which to make better music than he has, why stop him? Because of your personal prejudices?

It has a 99% chance of doing exactly the opposite of that. Many people here can tell you that from personal experience. Myself included.

And no, I'd argue that modes are very close to the bottom of musical usefulness for most modern purposes. Unless you're really, really into medieval music. :shrug:

ChucklesMginty 02-18-2013 09:51 AM

:lurk:

Jehannum 02-18-2013 09:56 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanHB
^^^ I wrote up something similar here http://profile.ultimate-guitar.com/AlanHB/blog/100719/


This should be essential reading for anyone who thinks they understand modes.


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