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Xinlitik 04-12-2005 06:47 PM

Theory Q's
 
Hey, I'm trying to learn some theory and I've got a few questions.

I know some of the formulas for finding chords etc of the major scale of a key, but I can't figure out the rest.

I know:

Chords
Major = 1 3 5
Minor = 1 3b 5
Dom 7th = 1 3 5 7b
Maj 7th = 1 3 5 7
Min 7th = 1 3b 5 7b

Scales
Blues = 1 3b 4 4# 5 7b 8
Min Pent = 1 3b 4 5 7b 8
Maj Pent = 1 2 3 5 6 8
Harmonic Minor = minor w/ sharpened 7

Soo, what else is there? This may be asking a question too big to answer, heh. I'm rather ignorant about theory, so I don't know if it is or not.

Also, what does stuff like sus mean? I.E. Gsus9

Thanks

redwing_suck 04-12-2005 07:04 PM

harmonic minor has a whole new set of modes... locrian nat. 6, ionian augmented, dorian #4, phrygian dominant, lydian #2, altered dim., and melodic minor alos has a new set of modes... dorian b2, lydian augmented, lydian dominant, mixolydian b6, locrian nat. 2, altered dom....

you know all the intervals of the basic 7 modes?

search for this. the question(s) has been answered many a time.

SilentDeftone 04-12-2005 07:09 PM

Modes
First of all, a mode is a way of playing a scale. There are 7 basic modes, all based on the major scale. If you don't know the major scale, learn it ASAP. The intervals are W W H W W W H.

Anyways, since there are 7 notes in the major scale, you can have 7 different root notes (or starting points) and still be in the same key. For the purpose of this lesson I'll be using the key of C, because it has no flats and no sharps, and is one of the most common keys.

First of all, start thinking of notes as scale degrees:

Code:
Note: C D E F G A B C Degree: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1


The names of the modes, in order, are Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian, and Locrian, and they start on their respective scale degrees.

Starting on the first degree, you get 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1, which is Ionian. Also the major scale.

Starting on the second degree, your notes are D E F G A B C D. This is the Dorian mode. Its formula is 1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7 1. Here's why:

Code:
Degrees: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1 D scale: D E F# G A B C# D D Dorian: D E F G A B C D Degrees: 1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7 1


You should be able to see how the F# was flatted down to F natural and C# down to C natural. That is how each mode's formula is found.

The third mode is Phrygian, its formula is 1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 1. In the key of C, the notes would be E F G A B C D E = E Phrygian.

The fourth is Lydian. Formula is 1 2 3 #4 5 6 7 1.

5th is Mixolydian, 1 2 3 4 5 6 b7 1.

6th is Aeolian, or the natural minor scale. 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 1.

7th is Locrian, which is a half diminished scale. 1 b2 b3 4 b5 b6 b7 1.

Therefore, the 7 modes in the key of C are:
C Ionian
D Dorian
E Phrygian
F Lydian
G Mixolydian
A Aeolian
B Locrian

Sus means suspended. There are 3 main types of sus chords.
sus2 = 1 2 5
sus4 = 1 4 5
7sus4 OR sus = 1 4 5 b7

I'd say sus9 implies tones 1 4 5 b7 9.

-SD :dance:

Junkstuff1 04-12-2005 07:18 PM

Just one thing I'll add:

Major pentatonic goes 1 2 3 5 6 8, not 1 3 4 5 7 8.

Xinlitik 04-12-2005 07:45 PM

Thanks junk, fixed it.

SD:
So the formula for each mode in C is based on the major scale of the designated note?

E major would be

E F# G# A B C# D# E

Since E is the third degree of the C Major scale, it is Phyrgian with the formula 1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 1.

So,

E F G A B C D E, which is what you said.

Soooo, I'm guessing it's based off the major scale of each note.

Anyway, could you please let me know if I'm right doing the following?

Modes of B

Major scale:
B C# D# E F# G# A# B

Ionian:
B C# D# E F# G# A# B

Dorian:
C# D# E F# G# A# B C#

Phrygian:
D# E F# G# A# B C# D#

Lydian:
E F# G# A# B C# D# E

Mixolydian:
F# G# A# B C# D# E F#

Aeolian:
G# A# B C# D# E F# G#

Locrian:
A# B C# D# E F# G# A#

I hope I understood that lol.


Thanks a bunch redwing and SD.

Captain Colon 04-12-2005 07:59 PM

One of my favorites is full diminished (I think that's the name) - 1 b3 b5 bb7

SilentDeftone 04-12-2005 08:00 PM

Yes, it's based of the root's major scale, I'll add that in, thanks.

You should have noticed that all the modes of one major scale have the same notes :) Those modes of B are correct.

-SD :dance:

Xinlitik 04-12-2005 08:06 PM

Ya. :D After the second I just CnP'd in a different order after the pattern seemed to work out well.

Thanks a bunch.

Quote:
One of my favorites is full diminished (I think that's the name) - 1 b3 b5 bb7


That would be a chord, right?

SilentDeftone 04-12-2005 08:12 PM

^Yes. A fully diminished chord. _dim7.

-SD :dance:

viciodk 04-12-2005 08:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SilentDeftone
Sus means suspended. There are 3 main types of sus chords.
sus2 = 1 2 5
sus4 = 1 4 5
7sus4 OR sus = 1 4 5 b7

I'd say sus9 implies tones 1 4 5 b7 9.

Or maybe sus9 is the same as sus2, where the 2 is in the octave above the root, i.e. sus9 = 1 5 9?

Someone wrote this in another thread on UG (can't remember who).

This has confused me for some time. So.. Does sus9 have the formula 1 4 5 b7 9 or 1 5 9?

EDIT: And what about 9sus? I guess the formula in this case would be 1 4 5 b7 9. This is what you (SilentDeftone) called a sus9 chord... sus9 = 9sus?

SilentDeftone 04-12-2005 08:59 PM

Well, based on Jazz Theory by Mark Levine?

A _susb9 contains the tones 1 4 5 b7 b9 (characteristic of Phrygian, blah blah etc.). Using that info, I jumped to the conclusion that _sus9 would be 1 4 5 b7 9. I think if they meant 1 2 5 they'd put sus2.

-SD :dance:

viciodk 04-12-2005 09:16 PM

^ I've got that book as well.. :)

I think the b9 is just an alteration to the chord.

SilentDeftone 04-12-2005 09:19 PM

^ Right, so it would make sense that sus9 would just be a sus + the 9th. At least that's how I see it.

-SD :dance:


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