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Old 07-04-2010, 04:36 PM   #1
grooaarrhh
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Ambition [metal with orchestrations] C4C

Hi guys,
So this is the first song which will undergo UG's criticism.
I was listening to "The Ocean" (a really good band by the way) and I was like "Those orchestrations are really pleasant to hear. Let's try something like that". So I wrote this song and it sounds great to me. So give me your opinion about it!



NEW: now you can compare the two version. Tell me what you think!




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I will crit for crit according to this rule : I will try to give the same in depth/superficial crit as you did. Don't forget the link!
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File Type: zip Ambition.zip (25.5 KB, 129 views)
File Type: zip Ambition updated.zip (26.2 KB, 82 views)

Last edited by grooaarrhh : 07-28-2010 at 03:23 PM.
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Old 07-05-2010, 05:46 PM   #2
LessThanLuke
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Hey it's very rhythm-heavy. Some lead riffs, or at least some riffs a little higher up the fretboard, would be nice since the entire rhythm track doesn't go higher than the low F sharp string (except a few pinch harmonics).

I like the riff F, but if I were you I'd switch it up here and there rather than having it the same rhythm each bar. Or just add one bar to like 5/4 time and put an extra pull off in -- kinda throws the listener off, which in a cool tech riff like that you really wanna do, at least I thiknk so

The transition from riff G to riff H feels really awkward, like just leaving a hanging open, it almost feels like a separate song entirely, it builds up into a nice big ending which I do like, but its just that change, perhaps re-visit that and see if there's a nicer way from the tech'y rhythm into this nice flowing higher chord'ier stuff?
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Old 07-05-2010, 06:17 PM   #3
grooaarrhh
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Hey thanks for your quick answer!

Quote:
Originally Posted by LessThanLuke
Hey it's very rhythm-heavy. Some lead riffs, or at least some riffs a little higher up the fretboard, would be nice since the entire rhythm track doesn't go higher than the low F sharp string (except a few pinch harmonics).

Yeah. You're right but here I wanted to do something very frontal (in fact, I find the main riff a bit stupid ). But it's true that this one lack things like solo and so in the first part. The main idea was to let guitars in their (low) field/range.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LessThanLuke
I like the riff F, but if I were you I'd switch it up here and there rather than having it the same rhythm each bar. Or just add one bar to like 5/4 time and put an extra pull off in -- kinda throws the listener off, which in a cool tech riff like that you really wanna do, at least I thiknk so

I'll see what I can do but in this song, I don't want to surprise the listener. The aim is more to make him feel the music than to make him understand what I wrote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LessThanLuke
The transition from riff G to riff H feels really awkward, like just leaving a hanging open, it almost feels like a separate song entirely, it builds up into a nice big ending which I do like, but its just that change, perhaps re-visit that and see if there's a nicer way from the tech'y rhythm into this nice flowing higher chord'ier stuff?


Here you're really annoying me. I know this transition is a bit forced but it needed calm to build this big ending. I'll try my best to find another solution but I surely need other opinion than yours for this one.


For me, putting a song on UG is really a good test to see if the choice I made are understood/liked/disliked. I will post more songs later, to see if when I go further (in a progressive musical way) it reaches its limits or not.
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Old 07-05-2010, 09:58 PM   #4
DiminishedFifth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grooaarrhh
Here you're really annoying me. I know this transition is a bit forced but it needed calm to build this big ending. I'll try my best to find another solution but I surely need other opinion than yours for this one.

It's a critique. If a critique annoys you, this might not be the section for you.

Having said that, critiquing as I listen:

A 120 - A': Sounds kind of Winds of Plague-ish honestly. It's alright. But it's a little overbearing if you ask me. Once you hit A' is the part where it kinda goes downhill. It gets better at bar 13 with the Pad offering a slight melody. Maybe bring that to the forefront a little mor?

B - Give the drums a little more of a groove. They're just kinda... there right now. Have them hold a good rhythm. The guitars get a nice groove towards the end of B, but the drums don't accent it very well.

C - Best riff here. Needs more body though! It sounds very hollow. This would be a GREAT time to introduce the orchestra. There's a lot of potential here.

D - Seems more like an alteration of the starting theme, honestly.

E - Drums need a beat. Get a nice beat going rather than just accenting it and making it seem like a bridge and you got another really good section!

F - Sounds like riff B... The bass is really nice though. I like the discordant harmonies.

F' - Same issue with the drums! Good riff.. aside from that.

H 70 - Nice harmonies. I'm enjoying this section a lot so far. When Bar 96 hits it starts sounding a little bit like Zelda music. But when Bar 100 hits... it begins to get a little too cluttered with too many notes clashing and stuff like that. Try and clear it up? Maybe have notes being held in different octaves.

H' - Very nice. Not much to say. I like how you introed I. Good job.

I - It's good, but some of the harmonies are too thick and clash. Like the chords in Bar 124 don't really go with what's happening in the orchestra section.

J - Nice! Best part of the song. I like what the drums are doing. All the harmonies are working together. Good stuff.

J' - Nice way to climax. Only issue? It sounds a little hollow. You need more bass in this section... like... a LOT more.

K' - Interesting way to end. Not much to say.

Overall, it's not bad. But it reaches it's potential once H hits. Before that it's like you had the same riff stuck in your head for days and tried to find out how many ways you could get it down. It wouldn't be that bad but the drums never really held a beat or anything. Even in the most techy of tech death beats are held in the drums. I dub thee, 6.5/10.

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Old 07-06-2010, 03:51 PM   #5
Progbass92
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Honestly, I didn't like much of the first half of the entire song. The only strong riff before part H was riff C. I also thought the variation on F was a good idea, even though I'm not a huge fan of the riff itself. The technique you used was a good idea.

The drums were weak the whole time, never really solidifying a solid pulse, which is very important in a song like this. Some of the orchestrations should be introduced earlier because the song does feel empty at times. C would have been a perfect time to do so.

The parts with the orchestra are extremely good. The harmonies are very well done, and you layer the instruments very well. The only weakness here is the drums again. This time, they're just boring and they make the section drag instead of move it forward. They need a lot more energy, as this part should act as the climax of the song, the most exciting part of the whole thing.

Honestly, you can do without a lot of parts in the beginning of the song. I'd try and rework some things to make it more cohesive and a better buildup to the really strong orchestral part near the end. Right now it sounds like two separate songs, one being not so great, and the other being fantastic. Try and meld it into one good song.
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Old 07-06-2010, 05:49 PM   #6
Ometh
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Jeez I haven't critted anything in quite a while so here it goes.

First riff is nice but when the keyboards they create dissonance with it, wich is not really nice. The second riff could be a slam if it was palm muted and slower lol, I really like riffs on standard tuning that use bars instead of regular power chords, it gives them a chunkier song. The keyboard create a weird yet interesting athmosphere. I ****ing love this riff (B/B')but I don't reallu know why. It's kind of breakdownish/slamish and the chromatic pattern is really nice. Riff C is also good. Repetition of second riff, doesn't sound tiring. Riff F is awkward as hell, still pretty kickass. Riff F is also nice and the keyboard add a weird athmosphere again. Riff G is ok and 85 made me lol. Nice chords at H 70/H'/I The chords progress and became more melodic and relaxing, I love this part. The keyboard at 120 is lovely. This parts is probably my favourite part on the song.
J is so atmospheric, so good. I love the drums getting faster at J', almost reaching blasy beat speed. Ok they reached blast beat speed lol. The ending K id good but it could be longer. I forgot to mention, but thye cymbals could use alot more cymbal hits. Overall, 8/10, great job! C4C ? Second link in my signature.

EDIT: I forgot to mention which riff I was talking about sometimes lol
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Old 07-06-2010, 08:13 PM   #7
vsdornelas
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Well, long time no critting...

Riff A is too heavy, which brings to huge wall of sound where you can't distinguish which notes are being played. Maybe it's just GuitarPro's RSE, I don't know . Now, Riffs B and C get things going. I think there's a bit of a groove in there, that make those sound really cool.
Riff D gets the same crit as Riff A. About E, I don't know why but it sounds better than A and D. Riff F is nice as well, and I liked the work with open strings on F'. Riff G is just a transition to H, I presume, and it does work for that.
Riff H 70, a build-up, right? I'd recommend you some arpeggios on an acoustic guitar, and a bit faster as well. H70 breaks the song's dynamics, IMO. Riff H' is where the things start to get going again, nice.
Parts I and J, congratulations, mate! Great chord progressions. No need to crit that, it's perfect. Now, uh... at J', was that a solo? Or more build-up? 'Cause for build-up, it's good; for solo, it misses... soloing?
Overall: nice song, not my kind of music, but good nonetheless. 7,5/10.

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Old 07-06-2010, 10:42 PM   #8
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Not that bad, really.

The main problems was the riff starting at bar 13. It was a decent riff, but the beat behind it messed up the flow of the song. It was too slow, didn't really keep up with the pace.

Riff B was rather annoying, to be honest. I don't know what it was. The intro to Riff B was perfect, but parts of it just sound flat and don't fit. \

Riff C sounded bad on first listen, but on second listen I thought it was pretty good.

Riff D is a decent riff, but at this point in the song, it just sounds like it's dragging on. I would probably put something else in here. That or maybe give it a faster pace with the backing instruments.

Riff E doesn't sound right. I don't think that the bar chords sound good, and the inverted power chords aren't helping.

Riff F, same thing as with before.

Riff F', I like the guitars better here than in the similar riff. But once again, the backing instruments are a little too slow.

Riff G... I like it a lot.

Riff G (the 8/4 section)... would sound a lot heavier if it was a bit faster.

Riff H... this part is fantastic. It would be utter suicide for your song if you took it out.

Riff H'... once again, ****ing amazing.

Riff I comes off of Riff H' fairly well. Must keep.

Riff J and J'... fantastic.

Riff K... perfect ending.

Honestly, all in all, this is one of the most beautiful songs I have critiqued here on UG.. well done with that part.

But the first half needs some major improvements, otherwise I would always skip to the second half of this song.
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Old 07-07-2010, 12:07 PM   #9
grooaarrhh
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Thanks everyone for those crits. So what I will remeber and rework are:

- first the drums, who seems inappropriate : not bad, but could be a lot better. It will be hard as I'm only a guitar player.
- part A'. I will try to change this weird piano. It sounds interesting but I can do better.
- part C. Lots of work here. Drums and add orchestra to make it "whole".
- Then try a better transition for C-D-E. It seems bad.
- Substitute G.
-Finally try to make the end a little more uncluttered while keeping it complex and progressive.

That's what I was looking for. Now it's time to give back your crits!
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Old 07-28-2010, 03:24 PM   #10
grooaarrhh
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Sorry for this bump but I'm really curious about what you think of the new version.
Still C4C!
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Old 08-02-2010, 11:53 PM   #11
envoykrawkwar7
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well here you go, ill try to be as indepth as you were
a, as a whole a to me sounds really slow and empty almost, i think its wthe warm pad it needs to be like synth strings to accomplish what you want to

b sounds pretty cool, i like the choppiness a lot, not much to be done here

cit kinda starts to lose me, the violin sounds as if its a different song playing over one song, its really off i think but at d i see what you were trying to do, i know its a transition, but mabey just cut out c?

e and were back to heavy, i think your problem here is that its 120 bpm which gives it a very monotonous feel to it because its the standard for everything =/

g it gets really spontaneous, i really like the way that plays ove, dont change it at all

h, came around perfectly and i like the little instruments you threw in there, it really gives a very well rounded feel, and h' has an awesome build to it, nothing to fix there

i i think is my favorite part, the way it plays over layers sounds prefect to my ears, this is probably the best part of the song al together, but mabey drop the hammond, it feels off

j- nvm, keep the hammond, here at least, mabey not before but i like what you did with it here

j'- the solo is really weak here, it needs to be boosted or something to make it to its full potential, mabey not so boring and predictable, i think thats the only problem with it, but other than that its perfect

k- this ending feels a little week to and i think its just because its the one note, mabey if it had an effect on the note it would sound a lot better

i definatley liked it though, even if it sounds like im condescending it, i definitely feel the emotion in the piece and its really good, i would definitely listen to this song if it was recorded for real and it would definitely be on my ipod =)
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Old 08-03-2010, 03:09 PM   #12
JazzDeath
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I don't get the orchestration for the beggining of the song at all man...
I'm listening to your updated version, and here's what I see as the flaws.

The first riff sounds fine... until the synth comes in, I just don't get it, it doesn't accentuate the emotion that was set by the guitar riff, it doesn't fit in any way, it's just like a completely separate chord pasted on top of a guitar riff, and it's absolutely unnecessary in my opinion. Either change the chord voicing so that it supports the guitar line, or take it off... right now it ruins the riff.

Your transition to riff b is kind of cheap, but it works; can't really complain. Riff b is alright, just nothing special, and then B' you have that weird harmony at the end, I'm not sure if I like it or not.

C makes no sense harmonically.

D starts to sound a bit more concrete yet it still feels kind of sketchy in a couple parts, as in the instrumentation isn't backing itself as well as it could be, sounds a bit muddy.

Part E works, it's not amazing but it's alright.


Alright again at F, starts to sound weird and then I realize this time it sounds weird for a reason, it's going towards an unsettling feeling, and suddenly in this part of the song, it actually works.

Part G is, well, it's okay, that lead could be better I think, but the true genius is bar 92, that transition is bomb, and the best executed thing I heard up to now.

Part H sounds kinda post hardcore-y, sounds pretty good, I enjoyed it - although simpler and less busy than the rest of the stuff the orchestration actually worked very well together, so that's what you need to focus more upon - stuff working together in harmony! (Literally )

then at bar 118 it slowly starts falling back towards dissonance that isn't purposeful (at least I don't think so) - the rhodes the bass and the guitar man it just sounds like a total mess of separate melodies at times, I don'T get it...

I think the mixing is an issue too, everything kind of melts into each other...

I think in the end you should really focus on finding what your strongest melody and rhythmics are and working the rest around that basis, to make it more coherent. The ending was nice though, and although it was messy and jumbly it seems like you have a bunch of good ideas but there's like ,a messy clutter around it and you hvae to dig through to find them... remove some of the clutter man, sometimes less is more.

C4C? I imagine you'll be as harsh as I was . Check out my Uber Folder in my sig!
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