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Old 01-20-2011, 05:53 PM   #1
ethan_hanus
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Tuning at different Hertz Thread(requiers good ears)

Thought I'd do a quick demo about this strange phenomenon that I've just come across. When your tuning a guitar, typically everyone has their tuners set at 440hz. I've recently found out that changing that base setting to 444hz tunes your guitar bout 30 cents higher than it would in 440hz and to me it sounds better. But, I'll let ya'll be the judge of that, which I have come up with a bunch of clips testing both tunings. I used the 2nd position on my guitar just for kicks.

Guitar- 2006 Squier Affinity with Bareknuckle Painkiller in bridge, Bareknuckle Trilogy Suites in middle and neck.

Amp- Valveking 112, nothing in the chain

Tuner- Korg CA-30 Chromatic Tuner(just innotated my guitar with this tuner in 440hz)

Recording method- FX Send to Line in on Computer, with Catharsis Studios Impulses in LeCab, 1on-Pres5 and s-preshigh blended. Then single tracked, duplicated, move one 20 miliseconds, and pan hard right and hard left for a slightly wider sound.

Clean guitars high passed at 100hz
Distorted guitars high passed at 150hz

Note: All settings remained the same for all recordings except for what is described above.

440hz

Clean 2nd Position: http://profile.ultimate-guitar.com/.../all/play946121
Clean 3ed Position: http://profile.ultimate-guitar.com/.../all/play946122
Dirty 2nd Position: http://profile.ultimate-guitar.com/.../all/play946128

444hz

Clean 2nd Position: http://profile.ultimate-guitar.com/.../all/play946123
Clean 3ed Position: http://profile.ultimate-guitar.com/.../all/play946127
Dirty 2nd Position: http://profile.ultimate-guitar.com/.../all/play946129

Last edited by ethan_hanus : 01-20-2011 at 05:57 PM.
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Old 01-20-2011, 06:07 PM   #2
Pennderinn
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I personally think 440hz sound better... 444hz is just slightly off which throws of my ears... because its almost in tune but its just not quite there!
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Old 01-20-2011, 06:21 PM   #3
ethan_hanus
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Yeah, I figure that's what most people who are used to tuning by ear are gona say, but to me it just sounds like the notes blend better in 444hz, cause my guitar is screwy, especially on the GB and e strings, even though it's correctly innotated to 440hz.
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Old 01-20-2011, 06:59 PM   #4
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Maybe its not intonated as correctly as you think? Would be my guess.
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Old 01-20-2011, 09:38 PM   #5
ethan_hanus
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Oh it is, within 1 to 2 cents accurate, both 12th fretted and 12th fret harmonics. Spent several hours innotating and reinotating it to make sure.
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Old 01-21-2011, 07:50 AM   #6
DisarmGoliath
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I'm slightly sceptical that you aren't able to say intonation but as far as tuning goes, it's all down to preference really. You can never be 'perfectly' in tune, and putting the guitar in different tunings is gonna have effects to the sound as well, because the guitar's body will have sympathetic harmonic resonances to certain frequencies and if you drop tune the low E to a D, for example, when you play it the high E will no longer resonate sympathetically in as strong a way as it would when tuned roughly two octaves higher to the note you played, and similarly the G and B would be affected as they are the 3rd and 5th in an E minor chord and are no longer as sympathetic to the low string.

Basically, I'm saying you've discovered something you obviously like so there's no reason why you shouldn't use it or experiment with it... just be aware that if you play with software instruments, or with a band, they'd have to be adjusted the same or you'll get a pretty strange effect! (Haven't checked your samples as I'm at uni atm, so you may have posted examples).


On another note, what do you think of fitting BKP Nailbombs in the bridge and neck of a Les Paul, for a mix between classic and modern metal sounds (the kinda stuff I'd use it for)? If I have the cash in the next 6-12 months I'm thinking of doing it, but not sure whether I wanna use my money on it, when I'm a student with a much bigger gear wishlist than cashflow.
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Old 01-21-2011, 01:50 PM   #7
ethan_hanus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DisarmGoliath
I'm slightly sceptical that you aren't able to say intonation but as far as tuning goes, it's all down to preference really. You can never be 'perfectly' in tune, and putting the guitar in different tunings is gonna have effects to the sound as well, because the guitar's body will have sympathetic harmonic resonances to certain frequencies and if you drop tune the low E to a D, for example, when you play it the high E will no longer resonate sympathetically in as strong a way as it would when tuned roughly two octaves higher to the note you played, and similarly the G and B would be affected as they are the 3rd and 5th in an E minor chord and are no longer as sympathetic to the low string.

Basically, I'm saying you've discovered something you obviously like so there's no reason why you shouldn't use it or experiment with it... just be aware that if you play with software instruments, or with a band, they'd have to be adjusted the same or you'll get a pretty strange effect! (Haven't checked your samples as I'm at uni atm, so you may have posted examples).


On another note, what do you think of fitting BKP Nailbombs in the bridge and neck of a Les Paul, for a mix between classic and modern metal sounds (the kinda stuff I'd use it for)? If I have the cash in the next 6-12 months I'm thinking of doing it, but not sure whether I wanna use my money on it, when I'm a student with a much bigger gear wishlist than cashflow.


BKP Nailbombs in a Les Paul are a Godsend. I've heard alot of examples with the Nailbombs in Les Pauls, and I think the Nailbomb was designed by God through Tim just for the Les Paul. It works that well with that guitar. It does pure Rock the best, very good at solos, if you know how to play well, and since it's a high output contemporary pickup, it does metal perfect. With BKP's, your amp is going to dictate how that pickup reacts, if you have a all around amp, then it shouldn't matter, but every single contemporary BKP pickup I've seen seems to do all genres excellently depending on the amp.
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Old 01-21-2011, 04:00 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DisarmGoliath
You can never be 'perfectly' in tune

Well. What about the gibson robot guitars? Don't those tune right down to the perfect note without even being a slight cent off? xD I wouldn't know. Never used one.

But otherwise, you won't really be 100% perfect but it won't change the sound really.
The slight changes between the recordings on here aren't enough to really change the way something sounds and the only person who will even notice is the one who recorded it.

Nonetheless, I like the sound of the 444hz more.
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Old 01-22-2011, 04:16 PM   #9
DisarmGoliath
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TechnicolorType
Well. What about the gibson robot guitars? Don't those tune right down to the perfect note without even being a slight cent off? xD I wouldn't know. Never used one.

But otherwise, you won't really be 100% perfect but it won't change the sound really.
The slight changes between the recordings on here aren't enough to really change the way something sounds and the only person who will even notice is the one who recorded it.

Nonetheless, I like the sound of the 444hz more.

What I meant was, just like with many other measurements, you can't be 'exactly' in tune, because if you can invent a way of measuring it you might be half a cent out of tune, then half of that, then half of that, etc. With most (I think all, atm) measurements there is a 'margin of error' of 1/2 that unit.

Also, when you play a string it doesn't vibrate perfectly at one frequency, it fluctuates in pitch as it slows down... and the harder you hit the string, the more you might make the pitch fluctuate. And it depends on your intonation, how well you fret the notes and how hard you fret the notes... I'm probably the only person still reading at this point lol. I'll try not to post anything as boringly perfectionist for a few days after this!


Quote:
Originally Posted by ethan_hanus
BKP Nailbombs in a Les Paul are a Godsend. I've heard alot of examples with the Nailbombs in Les Pauls, and I think the Nailbomb was designed by God through Tim just for the Les Paul. It works that well with that guitar. It does pure Rock the best, very good at solos, if you know how to play well, and since it's a high output contemporary pickup, it does metal perfect. With BKP's, your amp is going to dictate how that pickup reacts, if you have a all around amp, then it shouldn't matter, but every single contemporary BKP pickup I've seen seems to do all genres excellently depending on the amp.

Ah, it's as I thought then. Definitely something I'll look into one day And my amp is the one in my sig, pretty high end and I love the sound so it shouldn't be a problem to the pickups of any guitar I'd hope!
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Last edited by DisarmGoliath : 01-22-2011 at 04:18 PM.
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Old 01-22-2011, 04:25 PM   #10
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now i think your right goliath, i agree with you and i was still reading lol
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Old 08-14-2011, 10:02 PM   #11
95thFallout
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Forum revive. I often tune my guitars to a quarter step below standard which would be 430hz because i find the 440 to geniric and the half step to lose plus the 430 is very unique and diffrent :P
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Old 08-15-2011, 08:25 AM   #12
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Perfect tuning doesn't exist. Just like measuring, there's always an error margin. We study that in engineering school.

Your 444Hz might be a 440 Hz ... or not.
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Old 08-15-2011, 06:28 PM   #13
DisarmGoliath
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sympho
Perfect tuning doesn't exist. Just like measuring, there's always an error margin. We study that in engineering school.

Your 444Hz might be a 440 Hz ... or not.

Thank you


P.S Guy above Sympho, you're sooooo 6 months ago Are you tuning it so that A to you is 430Hz? 'Cos from your post it's a bit confusing as to whether you're just tuning down a quarter step, or tuning to A=430Hz.


Anyway, after re-reading the thread, 6 months later (grr) I realised another thing. Ethan, you said your guitar's G, B and high E were always out... that's to do with the guitar having a 'tempered scale' tuning, whereby if the notes in a C major chord were to sound perfect you would actually require the other components of the chord (E and G) to be tuned to the root (C) rather than tuning each string with a tuner, or they would actually sound out of tune. And then when you play an open G major chord (easiest to notice the problem with, as the G string seems good at showing the clash with the root G) it would then be out too, even though it was technically in-tune when you played the C major. Google 'tempered scale tuning' as I probably haven't explained it very well.
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Last edited by DisarmGoliath : 08-15-2011 at 06:32 PM.
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Old 10-08-2011, 09:44 PM   #14
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I actually think it sounds better tuned to 444hz. It has a sweeter sound to it. Could be that the guitar resonates better when tuned to 444hz (some guitars sounds better when tuning to Eb or D standard than standard E tuning).
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