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Old 07-08-2011, 12:51 AM   #1
Life Is Brutal
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Fugue State (Fugue Based Tech Death) [C4C] (WIP)

Fugue:

Quote:
In music, a fugue is a composition in two or more voices, built on a subject (theme) that is introduced at the beginning in imitation and recurs frequently in the course of the composition.


Fugue State:

Quote:
A fugue state, formally dissociative fugue or psychogenic fugue, is a rare psychiatric disorder characterized by reversible amnesia for personal identity, including the memories, personality and other identifying characteristics of individuality. The state is usually short-lived (hours to days), but can last months or longer. Dissociative fugue usually involves unplanned travel or wandering, and is sometimes accompanied by the establishment of a new identity.


Combine the two with Metal and you get this. The piece is Polytonal, Guitar One is in B Minor, and Guitar two is in F Minor, although they both use accidentals to help the key modulation. I should note that these keys are a tritone apart, and share only two notes, C# and G.

The bass mediates between the two keys and also helps establish independant keys in the piece.

This may or may not qualify as a fugue, But this is what I was able to pull from the Wikipedia article and some listening. This is my first attempt at a Fugue, and is still a WIP that is up for massive change if needed. So yeah.

This was a fun piece to write, and I think it's going pretty well. I don't know if I'll continue it or leave it open ended as is, but I like the way it went, although I feel some slight changes could help it.

So here it is! C4C, and I will actively be looking for crits on this piece.
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File Type: gp5 Fugue State.gp5 (91.1 KB, 241 views)
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Old 07-08-2011, 01:25 AM   #2
DartS17
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I enjoy the intro, it builds nicely with a smooth transition from clean to distorted.
No complaints about the actual distorted part, it's good.
I feel that during "Wandering infinity" the pianos should be backed up by a bit of bass or at least panned to each end less. On a second listen it sounds fine actually.
The theme manages to continue on without getting tiring or stale.
Overall:
I liked it a lot, regardless of whether it qualifies as a fugue or not (which I believe it does based on what I know of fugues).
I feel it encapsulates the confusion of a fugue state well without being overly "forced" as well.

I've nothing for you to crit but enjoyed this quite a bit
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Old 07-08-2011, 02:01 AM   #3
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That was great. First off, I thought I might say that I've never heard of Polytonal music but it intrigued me enough to stop listening to This Godless Endeavour by Nevermore (So it better be good). Now I have two things to try out; DiminishedFifth's new tuning and Polytonal Fugues. Second, I don't have many complaints, so I'll just state what I liked and be off.

Wandering Infinity: Sounds very Russian in tonal qualities to me. Like something Sergei Prokofiev would do. I liked how each part gradually became more and more busy until it reached the next section.

Resurfacing: Piano sounds very Romantic (In a stylistic way, not mood evoking if you get what I mean).

Panic: Transition was seamless. So far the dissonance hasn't gotten to me, which is a good sign. Usually something this tonally abstract would put me off but along with Blotted Science, you're the only one who has done it. I wouldn't really call it a groove but the rhythm in bar 24/28 was a nice break no matter how small from the 16th note phrasing.

Submergence: So we're back into one key now aren't we? As far as I can see you're still changing between the two keys but all the instruments are switching together. It provides a nice subtle break. But that sounds like a good idea now, having frequent polytonal modulation between instruments. Definitely something I'm going to try out.

Reimmersed: Brilliant transition between this and previous section with the timbral shift. I'm glad to see more frequent integration of the Piano in your compositions too BTW.

Wandering Infinity: This appears to be a rhythmic variation of the Intro (only realised because of section name), utilising a similar melodic contour and Call-and-Response technique but is busier due to the 16th note runs. NICE!

Conscious Resurgence: Nice break from the busier sections previously heard and excellent build up by gradually getting busier and expanding on timbre.

Consciousness, et al: Nice interplay between the guitars and variation (Correct me if I'm wrong) on previous section.

Time: I'm not sure about this transition. It's not bad but it loses a lot of momentum. You could use the transition from bars 87-91 and cut out bars 75-86. A small flaw but give it a go (Or if you had something else in mind, do that).

Nameless: Good section. Slightly irrelevant to me though.

Panic: Good recapitulation. Maybe you could switch half of their melodic contours to mess with the listeners head (You can listen to section B of my latest work to see what I mean by this). Just an idea though.

Trapped Within: Nice recapitulation.

The Fugue: Nice ending too.

Overall you've done a fantastic job and I think you've progressed exponentially as a composer since the time I've been on here. This is true Progressive Metal as it really does do something musically new within the realm of Rock. It really does have its own sound. The closest band/artist I can compare this to is Anata but there's too much Baroque influence so then I'd say Bach. But then it's definitely in the Death Metal realm so this really bridges the two styles.

I can imagine that this polytonal work can become far more complicated than this but to even complete an entire composition (That is good) is an accomplished feat. You've also given me some ideas to work with. Now I just need to apply some mathematics to this and I'm set.
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Old 07-08-2011, 12:47 PM   #4
Life Is Brutal
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Thanks for the crits guys!

The same phrasing in bars 24 and 28 is also in bars 22 and 26, although it's transposed into F Minor rather than B Minor, as in bars 24 and 28. It's less prominent sounding, although if you notice it, whats dominant in the piece quickly changes.

Nah, Submergence is still polytonal, the parts just switch and transpose an octave. I find the rhythm to be very awesome.

The second Wandering Infinity section is similar to the first, although it could be considered the Development to the intro, which could be called the Exposition. Similar themes, but the phrasing and melodies are different, and I also used Harmonic minor in the last trade off prior to Conscious Resurgence.

Conciousness is a straight up fugue, and I suppose is a variation of Wandering Infinity, but its independant enough IMO to be called its own section.

Surprised you didn't notice "Amnesia?" as a section, where I borrowed 2 rhythm bars from "Panic" and put a new melody over it, where each bar resolves into the other and builds tension right before the last beat.

I liked the time section, and it's not really a transition, its just a break from the Amnesia riff. It could be taken out, but I like it.

Wierd that you didn't find Nameless relevant, I found that to fit perfectly aside from the bass, and creates a very interesting atmosphere IMO. But to each his own.

Those last two aren't exactly sections, just markers. I don't know if I'll continue it or not, but I could cut it off as is, I think.

Anata is a great band, and I thank you for the comparison. I was going for more Bach-ish, I listened to several of his fugues, but still doesn't sound too much like his work. But anyway.

Polytonal work can be much more complicated, although I picked two very difficult keys, and I would actually say that having 4 keys, Like C, F, Bb, and Eb would be MUCH easier than writing in the TWO that I picked. All those keys share 6 notes to the one next to it, and they also share resolve tones, so it would be much easier to write in those.

Like you could do a phrase in C, resolve, and then flat the B and work in the key of F. The Fugue's Exposition, Development, and Recapulation could also become easier due to the extra keys available.

That being said, it was still an extremely fun piece to write, and very satisfying to know that I understand the theory involved in it. This piece was also written in a very Mathmatical way, so this could be right up your alley.
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Old 07-08-2011, 09:01 PM   #5
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Same as with your other piece - it isn't a fugue but it's a good solid listen.
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Old 07-08-2011, 09:26 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlasco
Same as with your other piece - it isn't a fugue but it's a good solid listen.



This.

It was nice to listen to and I enjoyed it for what it was, not what it was trying to be (a fugue).

By calling it a fugue you instantly set expectations pretty high for the musically literate listeners and well, if I were to listen to this as if it were a fugue, I would frown and facepalm.

It was a good song but please don't call it a fugue...too many metal bands and artists claim to write fugues and stuff.
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Old 07-08-2011, 09:56 PM   #7
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^ Ha. Well, at least I wont be the first to be harsh.

Again, stop calling your stuff Death Metal. As usual, there's nothing in here that relates to death metal.

Further, I listened to this. Really. I did. But not even a minute later I literally cannot recall anything from it. Any. Little. Part. There's nothing memorable here to me really.

Which brings up what I couldnt stop thinking throughout... That it's a lot like what I used to do. I would compose because I thought I had a cool/unique idea [and I still sometimes will, like my Waltzish BM song (note: NOT a waltz)], but not because I had to. And as a result, nothing would come out with any emotional investment or attachment. And generally, emotional investment is what makes something memorable. As is this is just a flury of notes, really.

And to go back to my Death metal comment real quick, a few examples of modern DM [because it seems to me that you need some education on the subject of Death Metal, especially if you think modern "tech death" is death metal]:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEPP...feature=related [and it even has some technical elements!]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPhd...feature=related

and also, I'm not saying that you have to start writing like that or anything. I'm merely saying, dont call your music DM. I'd do the same if someone called their music doom or black and it wasnt either.
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Old 07-09-2011, 03:08 PM   #8
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Thanks for the crits.

@ XianXiuHong, I read your comment, thought for a moment, and proceeded to listen to Bach's little fugue and Toccata and Fugue in D Minor, while reading and studying the Wikipedia article on Fugues, and everything just... Well, Clicked.

I see that the piece is not a Fugue, and only borrows some skewed fugal elements. I will begin reworking the piece as soon as it falls off the first page.

Fugues are more... Canon-esque, than I originally considered.

@ Burning Angel, you keep telling me its not Death Metal, but you're giving me little help on what to actually call it. I'd like to call it Technical Metal, which would apply, but if it were to be anything other than instrumental it would need distorted vocals.

Quote:
[because it seems to me that you need some education on the subject of Death Metal, especially if you think modern "tech death" is death metal]:


Maybe thats because I'm going for a modern Tech Death sound rather than Death Metal. I've always claimed to be Tech Death, not Death Metal, and if you consider the two to be different, then there isn't much need to educate me on Death Metal if I'm going for a sound that as you say, Cannot be considered Death Metal.

That said, I'll listen to those songs and possibly draw some inspiration.

And about not being able to remember anything about the song, the song isn't that memorable to be honest. But that being said, I can listen to Classical Radio for 12 hours a day and only remember a theme or two after studying each piece intensely.

The feel of the song as a whole I can remember, but the actual music? Notes? Themes? Extremely vague in my mind. Same applies for the Bach fugues above, I can remember a few phrases and themes, but very little of the piece as a whole.

And in a way, if nothing is memorable after this song is heard, I believe it to be more appropriately named "Fugue State".
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Old 07-09-2011, 03:40 PM   #9
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Technical Metal sure. Progressive Metal even, works just fine I suppose. But this is the same problem that arises when people talk about Melodic Death and mean In Flames and other shitty Gothenburg esque bands that arent death metal. There's two distinct types, one of which is DM, one of which really isnt... And it comes down to tone, mood, note choice, drums... Little things that make the genre what it is.

But true enough though, I dont find baroque music or Bach fugues all that memorable either. Probably why 100% of the time I listen to Romantic Classical as opposed to Baroque. That and it's much more musically adventurous/interesting.
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Old 07-09-2011, 06:34 PM   #10
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For the record I thought it was memorable. I still remember that rhythm I pointed out and the introduction piano melody (And its variations). A good composition is one that makes me want to come back to it. Even if it's one small section, if it is really good and it's used scarcely throughout the piece then that's what type of composition has replay value. If this is a Baroque pianist like Domenico Scarlatti then fine, if it's Bartok or Stravinsky from the Romantic era then so be it.

@Burning_Angel: I'm curious as to your statement on Melodic Death Metal. Although In Flames are no longer Melodic Death Metal (Haven't been for at least a decade), they most certainly were in the day, but I don't think that's reason to disregard them due to the stigma attached to them from True Metal fans. I'm even doing a Prog/7 string arrangement of Man Made God, which is definitely Melodic Death Metal. When you speak of the Gothenburg sound, does that even include less popular ones like Dark Tranquility and At The Gates? If so, what constitutes as Melodic Death Metal? I'm all ears for it.

Don't take it the wrong way either, I'm just really curious as to what constitutes as Melodic Death Metal if those bands aren't. I'm aware of others like Carcass, Mors Principium Est and the like; and they're far less commercial than the Gothenburg Metal scene. Looking forward to your reply (PM me if it's completely unrelated to this topic).

EDIT @Burning_Angel: Just clarifying, when I said DT and ATG were less popular I was just referring to the fact that In Flames' popularity just dwarfs them in comparison.

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Old 07-09-2011, 06:46 PM   #11
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Sent pm.

For the record, AtG and DT are both fairly huge bands.
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Old 07-12-2011, 07:23 PM   #12
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I dont know much about music, but I dont feel like this is a fugue, and it certainly isnt death metal. It has dark wave written all over it though. it would totally fit as a cradle of filth song.

Its really pretty cool though.
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Old 07-12-2011, 08:49 PM   #13
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To add to what I consider and absolutely useless debate about genres (Because I feel like it, sue me), Burning_Angel seems to be referring to unadulterated death metal, such as in the old school vein, and honestly I am going to have to disagree greatly with anything he says to defend his points because in my opinion to claim that bands like In Flames were never defined as death metal would be claiming that a band like Death was only Death Metal until they released, let's say, Individual Thought Patterns, or that anything past Elvis is no longer Rock and Roll, even though modern Rock is totally different.

Death metal evolved a lot and developed a lot of sub-genres over the years, it doesn't make it something else suddenly.

As for your music itself it retains to the world of experimental music above all else in my opinion, and always has.

This is a good piece by the way, as everyone said though it's not a fugue, it's not death metal (Although I can see the influence from Tech Death within it), and I shall give you an in detail review upon having more time this weekend.
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Old 07-14-2011, 12:26 AM   #14
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Thanks for the quick and detailed post in my thread! You're scheduled for much-deserved bumping and critique, so here we go:

Wandering Infinity/Resurfacing: I really like the call-and-response of each phrase acting to support the focal modulation and polytonality of the piece of the piece; the tritone difference bears well, since scalar ideas are symmetrical in the grand scheme of things, and it's clearly the interval of choice for some experimental metal!
The groove in Resurfacing is fantastic - there are some songs by Angra and Symphony which feature these low piano grooves, and they're beyond the heaviness of distorted guitars in some situations.

Panic/Submergence
: The interplay between each guitar is fantastic here, especially since their roles in constructing the counterpoint keep flipping. This is a very interesting musical effect, and coupled with the wide stereo field, really enhances the mood implied by the section title - nice! The transition into a piano-dominant variation is awe-inspiring to say the least, and that Reimmersed's short groove is... *Squeals*. I love it!
Do you plan to use piano when recording this? I'm a little concerned since the tracks are listed as Clean Guitars, and the piano works so well!

Wandering Infinity/Conscious Resurgence: Wandering Infinity is a fantastic reprise of your first theme, expanding on the call-and-response theme with a little more urgency and pacing, though it still feels subdued and functions as an interlude. There's a sense of turbulence, in that a sort of stagnation of progression has occurred, as if we're stuck spinning in some unknown place - please don't take this as an insult, because I think it serves the context of the piece perfectly.
The drums during Conscious Resurgence is the highlight for me in terms of developing the piece further - there's some great independent development, and the phrasing is impeccable, particularly the placement of the ride bell. I've placed rides in similar places before, although usually in the context of ever-changing meters, so I've never heard it in a continuous groove before. That said, this section was a real eye-opener for me in terms of phrasing and creating an emotional impact through a percussion instrument (and believe me, I felt something here).

Consciousness - I'm just going to be frank; I can't get over how well-executed these variations are! While the piece may not be classified a fugue in a totally strict sense, there are more-than-obvious characteristics here at least, since a subject is prevalent and undergoing variations and placed in new contexts throughout. I thought the transition into this section was perfect, too.

From here, I haven't got much to say since the themes are variations of what's already been discussed, but I will say two things; the sense of flow, unity and continuity throughout this composition is staggering, and something I'll be referring to when writing my own pieces. At points where instruments drop out (particularly drums and bass exiting at the end), the remaining performing media still maintain momentum, and I'll be absolutely honest in saying that I'm still perplexed by it! It just works so much better than I'd have anticipated, and I'd only noticed the exiting and re-entry of instruments when actively observing the score (most of this was typed while listening a few times).

Regardless of whether this piece is a true fugue or not, I think you've done a fantastic job in not only adapting defining characteristics of the form in a new context, but you've done so effectively, which is pretty-damn innovative if I may say so myself.
I hope this review doesn't give you too much of a big head, but I really did thoroughly enjoy listening to this, and it's something - like I said - I'll be referring to for study and analysis. Great work!

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Old 07-14-2011, 02:21 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by juckfush
I hope this review doesn't give you too much of a big head, but I really did thoroughly enjoy listening to this, and it's something - like I said - I'll be referring to for study and analysis. Great work!



A bit, but I may have already been there.

Thanks for the crit. I don't know if I'll use piano for these pieces or what, but I feel either could work well.
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