Go Back   UG Community @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com > UG Community > The Pit
User Name  
Password
Search:

Reply
Old 12-19-2012, 11:52 AM   #161
Arby911
Finding the Pattern
 
Arby911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabcd86
But what does it solve? Making yourself more marketable to employers? Making yourself more attractive to women? With the economy the way it is becoming, there aren't enough jobs to go around, and not everyone has some "selling point". I mean, he quoted the film throughout, but what are we supposed to 'close'?

The only interest in the article, the "get off your arse and do something" is so general and weak as to be of no value whatsoever. The whole point is that 'something' either doesn't pay the bills, or just isn't there.

I mean, would a good business advice article be "sell something"?


You sound like one of the whiners he's speaking directly to...

Ok, so there aren't enough jobs to go around. SO WHAT?

I don't need jobs for everyone, I just need one for me, and to get that I just have to be more marketable than the other guy...and you.

FFS!
__________________
The man who holds to a belief because of tradition, or hides it because he fears he may be shown to be wrong, does not love the truth but manifests a coward’s faithfulness to his prejudices.
Arby911 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 11:54 AM   #162
WhiskeyFace
NSFW
 
WhiskeyFace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Ireland
Good article
__________________
Hors Phase~

Quote:
Originally Posted by cornmancer
Forget the fundamentals of filmmaking, this thread needs the fundamentals of condom wearing.
'There is hope - but not for us'
WhiskeyFace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 11:59 AM   #163
gabcd86
isn't French.
 
gabcd86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Camden, UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arby911
You sound like one of the whiners he's speaking directly to...

Ok, so there aren't enough jobs to go around. SO WHAT?

I don't need jobs for everyone, I just need one for me, and to get that I just have to be more marketable than the other guy...and you.

FFS!


Jesus, what a ****ing insight. So, to get a job I need to be better than the competition? Well I never.

The article gives nothing of any value.

Anyway, this stupid right-wing narrative of competition and individualism is short-sighted and unhelpful. If everything is up to the individual, you ignore the broader structural, societal factors that create the conditions which lead to mass unemployment and general unfulfilment.

Obviously, at the end of the day, you have to do what you have to do to get ahead, but that's not really any sort of revelation, is it? And yeah, I'm a whiner. In societies of unprecedented abundance and wealth, people are going hungry, and all this tool has to offer is "learn karate. CLOSE!". Cheers.
__________________
The Revolution Will Not Be Televised.

"En una revolucion, se triunfa o se muere, si es verdadera." ~Ernesto "Che" Guevara

Quote:
Originally Posted by leeb rocks
I guess that does technically make you the Che to my Fidel if it makes you feel better


UG Amplified
gabcd86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 12:03 PM   #164
Arby911
Finding the Pattern
 
Arby911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabcd86
Jesus, what a ****ing insight. So, to get a job I need to be better than the competition? Well I never.

The article gives nothing of any value.

Anyway, this stupid right-wing narrative of competition and individualism is short-sighted and unhelpful. If everything is up to the individual, you ignore the broader structural, societal factors that create the conditions which lead to mass unemployment and general unfulfilment.

Obviously, at the end of the day, you have to do what you have to do to get ahead, but that's not really any sort of revelation, is it? And yeah, I'm a whiner. In societies of unprecedented abundance and wealth, people are going hungry, and all this tool has to offer is "learn karate. CLOSE!". Cheers.


I get it, you don't get it.

Get used to masturbating in your mom's basement and wishing things were 'fair'...
__________________
The man who holds to a belief because of tradition, or hides it because he fears he may be shown to be wrong, does not love the truth but manifests a coward’s faithfulness to his prejudices.
Arby911 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 12:05 PM   #165
gabcd86
isn't French.
 
gabcd86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Camden, UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arby911
I get it, you don't get it.

Get used to masturbating in your mom's basement and wishing things were 'fair'...


__________________
The Revolution Will Not Be Televised.

"En una revolucion, se triunfa o se muere, si es verdadera." ~Ernesto "Che" Guevara

Quote:
Originally Posted by leeb rocks
I guess that does technically make you the Che to my Fidel if it makes you feel better


UG Amplified
gabcd86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 12:07 PM   #166
Xiaoxi
busy passing you
 
Xiaoxi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: on the autobahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arby911
Get used to masturbating in your mom's basement and wishing things were 'fair'...

__________________
Modes and scales are dumb and useless. Stop learning them. No, seriously.

Analyzing Brahms: Insights to Help Us Improve Our Music

My New Workstation
Xiaoxi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 12:18 PM   #167
food1010
Bassist
 
food1010's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister.Y
What bothers me is that he professes this as the one and only truth about the world. The article has the tone of a sermon, he is basically preaching. It does not allow other world views. He disintegrates people with their hopes, dreams, desires into the language of a marketplace. In"What You Produce Does Not Have to Make Money, But It Does Have to Benefit People" he uses ''a woman'' as an example. His examples do not reach further than a job(/money) and women, which he seems to equate with happiness. You have to conform to these rules (''How can I become the type of person employers want?", "How can I become the type of person that pretty girls like?") instead of constructing your own idea of success, which might be different for everyone. Society might end up slightly happier if it didn't encourage success.

He emphasizes that you must change yourself the way society, businesses, 'women' want you to change, which I think is a sure way of losing touch with yourself and making it seem like you're a failure. I think doing things that resound with your own sense of joy is a better way of getting out of a period of feeling down. He addresses this to people who are not satisfied in some way. Let's view this as mild form of depression. I have some experience/knowledge on the matter, this being my fourth year in college studying psychology. When people come to a psychologist, the things the author of the article sums up as important only scratch the surface, successful businessmen might find themselves unsatisfied despite of their success. And here the view of the person himself is important, not in what way he does or does not conform to any standard of success. The author seems not to believe in a change of perspective.

On the other hand, tips he gives in the article might be useful to some people, he emphasizes own responsibility, which I think is a good thing (although there are people whose problems are out of their control).
You're missing the target audience here. This article doesn't target everyone. It doesn't target people who have their own personalized goals and definition of success. It targets people who want to be more desirable to women or an employer.

Not to shut you down. You have great insight that the article lacks, but it doesn't really disprove anything the article says. The author even states in the beginning that the article isn't for everyone.
__________________
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
food1010 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 12:31 PM   #168
fail
Custom Mandy Moore avatar
 
fail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Westward
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabcd86
But what does it solve? Making yourself more marketable to employers? Making yourself more attractive to women?


Making yourself useful to others isn't limited to jobs and women, but there are a number of ways learning karate can give you more value in the eyes of others, with or without relating it to jobs and women.


Quote:
With the economy the way it is becoming, there aren't enough jobs to go around, and not everyone has some "selling point".


He also mentions if you don't have a selling point you can acquire one through practice. Of course that's not so simple in light of the economy, but he's not addressing people who are having trouble finding work, he is addressing people who are having trouble finding it because of the particular shortcomings he outlines. And again, employment is only one example of success.

Quote:
I mean, he quoted the film throughout, but what are we supposed to 'close'?


I think that depends on what specifically you want.

Quote:
The only interest in the article, the "get off your arse and do something" is so general and weak as to be of no value whatsoever.


Can't agree. It had to be general enough so that you could apply the advice to situations beyond employment. The way it was written was extremely powerful for those he intended it to influence. I found it valuable. Of course, when you condense the whole thing into a few words the way you just did, it will seem less valuable, but you're oversimplifying it.


Quote:
The whole point is that 'something' either doesn't pay the bills, or just isn't there.

I mean, would a good business advice article be "sell something"?


It wasn't intended as a business article...


EDIT: It also seems like you're trying to politicize it more than it was meant to be.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_the_fox
You're not girly enough of a boy for me, and you're not man enough to take the top. So like, sorry bitch but you ain't mine! Sorry.

Last edited by fail : 12-19-2012 at 12:34 PM.
fail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 01:39 PM   #169
sage76
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
I liked the last point about haters. No matter what you do, people will queue up to hate.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlinkyBlue

The solution is simple and obvious.

We revolt against ourselves. Mass suicide. The ultimate revolution.
sage76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 01:59 PM   #170
TheChaz
Scientist Salarian
 
TheChaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabcd86
But what does it solve? Making yourself more marketable to employers? Making yourself more attractive to women? With the economy the way it is becoming, there aren't enough jobs to go around, and not everyone has some "selling point". I mean, he quoted the film throughout, but what are we supposed to 'close'?

The only interest in the article, the "get off your arse and do something" is so general and weak as to be of no value whatsoever. The whole point is that 'something' either doesn't pay the bills, or just isn't there.

I mean, would a good business advice article be "sell something"?

The things that you're supposed to sell and "close" is yourself. The reason that the "douchebags" get all the success is because they're able to sell themselves. And I believe you missed the entire point of the article based on the phrase I bolded. The reason to get off your arse and do something is to create selling points for yourself. No one is going to value your ability to be really good at posting on forums and playing video games. The article is targeted at the people who sit around doing nothing and complaining about how they can't get a job. Whether the thing you get off the couch to do is karate, charity work, learning a foreign language, or lifting weights, it's going to make you more sellable to someone.

And yes, that actually might be a good business advice article. I've seen tons of small businesses go under in my town because they wait around for people to come buy their product instead of actually selling it to people.
TheChaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 03:16 PM   #171
jugglingfreak
UG Newbie
 
jugglingfreak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Georgia
Quote:
Originally Posted by TooktheAtrain
Well, altruistic spirit and empathy are prerequisites for positive action. That 'crap' you're talking about is fertile ground for action. (crap, as a matter of coincidence, happens to be a very good fertiliser)


But that's the point. I can have fertile soil in my back yard, if I don't tend to it, plant things, etc. It won't produce anything. I.E. If I don't get off my ass and do something, it doesn't matter how fertile it is.

As the old saying goes: "Actions speak louder than words."

Quote:
Originally Posted by gabcd86
Really? If life's problems could be solved by learning karate, we'd be living in a far more pleasant world.


Well, Karate teaches:

Concentration
Balance (mental and physical)
Control
Respect
Discipline
Humility
Goal Orientation
Self Confidence

All skills that will help you in life and in your career and make you a more valuable asset.

Last edited by jugglingfreak : 12-19-2012 at 03:33 PM.
jugglingfreak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2013, 03:51 PM   #172
CoreysMonster
Banned
 
CoreysMonster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Germany
I'm bringing this back up because of something I've learned recently, and to ask everybody if who claimed to to work on things, if they actually started working on themselves after this.

What I learned recently was the cold hard truth of nobody gives a shit of what you do. You can work for years on a single thing, and there's always the possibility that nobody will like it. That's what makes art so hard, you have to slave and work for a very long time in order to find out if anybody will ever be willing to put money towards what you do.
CoreysMonster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2013, 04:43 PM   #173
Dreadnought
Hammer / Scalpel
 
Dreadnought's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Spaceship of the Imagination
It's amazing, someone can simply say "work hard to better and distinguish yourself" and someone will complain about the advice.

Do people expect success and an easy life to be handed to them?
__________________
But we little know until tried how much of the uncontrollable there is in us, urging across glaciers and torrents, and up dangerous heights, let the judgment forbid as it may.

Last edited by Dreadnought : 03-10-2013 at 04:58 PM.
Dreadnought is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2013, 04:57 PM   #174
JohnnyGenzale
Bitter old sod
 
JohnnyGenzale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sweden
read number 1. Dumbest shit I ever read.

Edit

and I can guarantee that all these thoughts have already occured to me
__________________
sometimes I see us in a cymbal splash or in the sound of a car crash

Last edited by JohnnyGenzale : 03-10-2013 at 04:58 PM.
JohnnyGenzale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2013, 05:02 PM   #175
CoreysMonster
Banned
 
CoreysMonster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Germany
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreadnought
Do people expect success and an easy life to be handed to them?

Yes. People are told that success is nothing but a lotto win, that success is something that comes to the fortunate and lucky.

I know this is a weird example, but I've watched several interviews with the developer of Super Meatboy, Edmund McMillen. He said that a lot of his family thinks they just randomly came to money by being lucky, which is simply not true.

He stresses that he and his wife were poor as fuck for almost a decade, and that he worked his balls off for a long time in order to make something worth buying, which is why he became successful.

EDIT: he also has some wise words about talent:

Talent doesn't exist. Nobody is born with the ability to play guitar or whatever. All of that is earned through hard work and dedication. "Lack of talent" is a phrase usually used by people to explain why they don't have to try.

Last edited by CoreysMonster : 03-10-2013 at 05:04 PM.
CoreysMonster is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:23 PM.

Forum Archives / About / Terms of Use / Advertise / Contact / Ultimate-Guitar.Com © 2014
Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.