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Old 12-10-2012, 06:36 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by mitch311
Really? I've never heard a good riff by Kroeger. Care to enlighten me with a song?


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Old 12-10-2012, 06:38 PM   #42
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Old 12-11-2012, 06:03 PM   #43
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Bob the builder, the Spice Girls, the teletubbies etc have all had number 1 hits.

The spice Girls have probably had sales in excess of 50 million records.

I could and have work(ed) out their melodies quite quickly using generic formulas based on the major scale.

How good someone is cannot be related to by record sales.

We all know that people listen to shit. They listen to formulaic, repeated melodies and will do forever.

This is not art. Art is created when one expresses themselves. I find it hard to express myself when I'm copying someone else to the exact point. If I constantly create riffs that sound like variations of other riffs and have similar lyrical patterns and song structures I am not able to freely explain my feelings and am therefore restricting myself.

Kurt cobain expressed himself. He didn't use the same formulas over and over. He had some hits but so what. He also wrote a lot of intelligent insightful songs. Don't overlook that people.

Maybe Chad Kroeger expresses himself by using the same stuff on every song. But to me, that's a bit obvious and not what I look for in art. Take the Pumpkins. Every album sounds significantly different. Say what you want about Billy Corgan, but he's always pushing himself into different genres.

I feel we should constantly challenge ourselves and try to move forward as opposed to circling around the same stuff for eternity. Like the Spice Girls and Nickleback.

That's just me though.
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Old 12-11-2012, 06:41 PM   #44
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I don't understand why people so desperately want music to fit into this box of "high, inspirational and expressive art." Just stop.
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Old 12-11-2012, 07:11 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by rockingamer2
I don't understand why people so desperately want music to fit into this box of "high, inspirational and expressive art." Just stop.


You can address me directly you know.

I'm just saying that we shouldn't settle for the same shit day after day, when so many people do. I'm not saying Nirvana were the best or most intellectual band ever. Far from it.

But I think it would be ignorant to suggest that Kurt Cobain wasn't genuine and didn't try to communicate with people in a way that many bands don't seem to, when you compare the generic methods applied by previously mentioned acts in order to get to 50 million record sales.

And as I said, that's just me. I'm allowed to want more from my music, I'm not saying that everyone should demand that, it's completely up to you. But that's what I like. And that's all there is to it. So no Sir, I want stop, I'll take what I want and need from music.

I'm not trying to be elitist and I could be wrong about what music I connect with, it's just when you hear the same recycled stuff played again and again by different bands you tend to get a bit tired of it.

If people like Bob the Builder, Nickleback or The Spice Girls that's fine by me.
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Last edited by Mephaphil : 12-11-2012 at 07:17 PM.
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Old 12-12-2012, 04:07 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by deepfat
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Green Day or Nickleback fans couldn't give a crap less about whether they can play a solo using the F# harmonic minor scale. People just want to be able to sing along with a catchy chorus and shake their ass, at the end of the day. Yes, Green Day and especially Nickleback get a ton of shit here at UG, but you cannot deny their fanbase is vast. They must be doing something right in their music.


Excuse me but don't you dare compare Green Day to Nickelback!

Also I jizzed my pants when Billie Joe started ripping out solos on the new trilogy (he hasn't really played like that since the Kerplunk days) So yes, green day fans do care about the music
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Old 12-12-2012, 04:30 AM   #47
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Old 12-12-2012, 06:15 AM   #48
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or how classically trained musicians probably see e-guitarists..
The cavemen are using modes btw.
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Old 12-12-2012, 11:54 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Slashiepie


or how classically trained musicians probably see e-guitarists..
The cavemen are using modes btw.


LOL'd heartily

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Old 12-17-2012, 01:03 PM   #50
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I think, though, to suggest that Chad Kroeger is not expressing his true self is kinda trying to second-guess the character of someone who we probably know nothing about.

Maybe that really IS who is he, and he really IS expressing himself on his own terms. It's just a happy coincidence that what he is putting out there is something that large numbers of people happen to be responding to in a way that makes them money.

It really must resonate with a lot of people. Why is it impossible that this is not who he really is?

It really is a funny fallacy that suggests that anyone who produces something commercially successful has chosen to sell out than to remain true to themselves as an artist.

Best Chad Kroeger quote ever: (from http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id...ost-hated-bands)

"It's hard to get inside the existential paradox of Kroeger's life on tour: Every day, he gives interviews to journalists and radio DJs who directly ask him why no one likes his band. Every night, he plays music to thousands of enraptured superfans, many of whom love him with a ferocity that's probably unhealthy. Every concert ends with a standing ovation; if he feels motivated, he spends the remainder of the night partying with forgettable strangers who will remember him for the rest of their lives. Eventually, Kroeger falls asleep. And then he wakes up in a beautiful hotel room, only to read new articles about how everyone in North America hates his band."

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Old 12-17-2012, 01:09 PM   #51
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I was at a steve vai gig a couple of months ago. I'd say 1/3 were guitarists, 1/6 were guitarists' girlfriends and the rest were just regular folk so apprently there is some kind of market for shred guitar beyond 16 year olds who spend too much time playing guitar
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:34 PM   #52
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I believe that the guitar is a tool used to get across a sound that you want to make a song that you want to express yourself in a way you want. Thinking any music needs to be any way is just kinda shitting on music as an art form.

Mephaphil, as you said, most people listen to shit. That is absolutely true. But i would say that it is shit not because it is formulaic, but because it is written to make money rather than for the artist to express themselves through music. The artists are just the appearance of it. Having said that, to call formulaic music non expressive is a bit incorrect.

What about the blues kings playing their twelve bars, singing about their troubles, they aren't expressive? or the ii-V-I progression so popular in jazz, are they not expressing themselves?
I just don't agree that music can't be both formulaic AND expressive.
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:28 PM   #53
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I 100% agree with the poster. After taking a break from trying to be a shred guitar god, I fell in love with blues and jazz, so now tend to lean towards soulful playing (which is subjective in itself). So as far as virtuoso guitar players go, I pretty much only listen to EJ, Pass, Bonamassa.. etc.

Vai and Guthrie are obviously amazing players, but their music just doesn't resonate with me anymore. I don't feel anything. I never sit down and listen and think, "damn, that's beautiful." I just think "well, thats new," or "thats unique."
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Old 12-17-2012, 05:20 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by deepfat
"...ultimately, no one really gives two shits about guitar playing in and of itself, except maybe other guitar players."

Point is, it's about the song makeup. It's taken me long time to finally realize this after 12 years of playing. I was one of those nerds that thought only Vai, Rhoads, Di Meola, etc were the only great guitar players out there. Now, as I've matured in my playing I've learned that they're no more important than Billie Joe Armstrong or Joe Strummer, for example. It all comes down to this; can you or can you not write a good song, that can reach many people, using the guitar as a tool?

Green Day or Nickleback fans couldn't give a crap less about whether they can play a solo using the F# harmonic minor scale. People just want to be able to sing along with a catchy chorus and shake their ass, at the end of the day. Yes, Green Day and especially Nickleback get a ton of shit here at UG, but you cannot deny their fanbase is vast. They must be doing something right in their music.


and yet, people like clapton do both.
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