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Old 11-15-2012, 09:13 PM   #1
Palmsandtides
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Am I choosing the right cab???

Ok so I'm just about ready to pull the trigger on my new cab purchase. I'm looking at getting an Orange PPC212OB. It's 2x12 and open back (if you didn't know). I will be using a Mesa Boogie F50 head with it and I love the sound of my head. It's a 6l6 amp so the cleans are my biggest interest. The music I play is mostly mathy/prog type stuff. Think of Damiera or Minus the Bear meets This Town Needs Guns.

My biggest concerns are:
Will this cab provide enough sound and headroom to play shows?
And
Will the open back provide a more "room full" sound than a closed back, in other words less volume directional sound.


Right now I'm going into a shitty crate 4x12 and it sounds decent and has the volume I need but I wanna trim down the lugging of a huge cab to every practice. Plus I wanna obtain a legit cab with good speakers and craftsmanship.

Is this right for me? Any other ideas?
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:42 PM   #2
gumbilicious
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Palmsandtides
Ok so I'm just about ready to pull the trigger on my new cab purchase. I'm looking at getting an Orange PPC212OB. It's 2x12 and open back (if you didn't know). I will be using a Mesa Boogie F50 head with it and I love the sound of my head. It's a 6l6 amp so the cleans are my biggest interest. The music I play is mostly mathy/prog type stuff. Think of Damiera or Minus the Bear meets This Town Needs Guns.

My biggest concerns are:
Will this cab provide enough sound and headroom to play shows?
And
Will the open back provide a more "room full" sound than a closed back, in other words less volume directional sound.


OB's will project out the front and the back, this means if you place a few feet from a wall the you will fill a room with noise a bit more. and it won't be as directional.

unfortunately you seemed to have overlooked the simplest requirements for a cab: the specs. an orange PPC212OB is a 16 ohm cabinet... but your F50 only appears to have 8 and 4 ohm outputs. you'd be much better served by getting an 8 ohm cabinet.
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Old 11-15-2012, 10:33 PM   #3
Palmsandtides
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gumbilicious
OB's will project out the front and the back, this means if you place a few feet from a wall the you will fill a room with noise a bit more. and it won't be as directional.

unfortunately you seemed to have overlooked the simplest requirements for a cab: the specs. an orange PPC212OB is a 16 ohm cabinet... but your F50 only appears to have 8 and 4 ohm outputs. you'd be much better served by getting an 8 ohm cabinet.


Duely noted. The idea was to simply re-wire the cab into parallel which would result in an 8 ohm load. Perfectly safe for my head. As well, it is also perfectly safe to run out an 8 ohm jack into a 16 ohm cabinet. I'm just not sure if there would be a significant volume drop running a rig that way.
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Old 11-15-2012, 10:35 PM   #4
Bladed-Vaults
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^yep

im gonna reccomend ya fnd a splawn 2x12 (they are 8 ohm mono)
mesa 2x12 (i believe the recto cab has 8 ohm option) and those are upright cabs

if your worried about gigability just mic it.. thats the cure all to gigging with small amps

Last edited by Bladed-Vaults : 11-15-2012 at 10:36 PM.
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Old 11-15-2012, 10:45 PM   #5
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^what speakers do the splawn cabs come with?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Palmsandtides
Duely noted. The idea was to simply re-wire the cab into parallel which would result in an 8 ohm load.


unless i am mistaken, the 16 ohm orange cab should be two 8 ohm speakers wired in series. so wiring two 8 ohm speaker in parallel should give you 4 ohms, which your head should happily take.

thank god you anticipate this.

i may also bring up the fact that i wasn't a huge fan of V30's in the orange cabs. i personally installed a couple weber speakers in my PPC212, but i am planning on getting another PPC212 where i'll install G12K's.

i chose the PPC212 cuz it's closed back and has a large internal air space, ob cabs don't really care about dimensions as much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Palmsandtides
Perfectly safe for my head. As well, it is also perfectly safe to run out an 8 ohm jack into a 16 ohm cabinet. I'm just not sure if there would be a significant volume drop running a rig that way.


i prefer not to deal with the mismatch myself (though i will admit to knowingly mismatch heads and cabs) i try not to advise other people to do the same.
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Old 11-15-2012, 10:47 PM   #6
Bladed-Vaults
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splawns usually carry eminance speakers. from what I read small blocks are the norm.
mine has small block/texas heat combo.

fit and finish are easily matched against orange.
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Old 11-15-2012, 10:48 PM   #7
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^that should have quite a bit of punch
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:24 PM   #8
Palmsandtides
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Thanks for all the input. This is my first post on a forum and I'm glad I finally joined. I was used to VW forums where everyone acts like a turd and like they are super cool. At least people here know what they're talking about. The loudness issue is more for at practice. We have a shitty set up and I can't mic or line out. Live however if there's a board, the head has a line out which is awesome. Thanks again for the input.

My original cab idea was a VHT open back that comes with G12H30s speakers but was worried about the brand cause they seem cheap for what they claim.
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:40 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Palmsandtides
Thanks for all the input. This is my first post on a forum and I'm glad I finally joined. I was used to VW forums where everyone acts like a turd and like they are super cool. At least people here know what they're talking about.


sounds like you already know what you're doing too.

don't underestimate our ability to be dumb, there is some bad advice floating around here too. but most of the regulars in this forums are pretty friendly, understanding and patient.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Palmsandtides
The loudness issue is more for at practice. We have a shitty set up and I can't mic or line out. Live however if there's a board, the head has a line out which is awesome. Thanks again for the input.

My original cab idea was a VHT open back that comes with G12H30s speakers but was worried about the brand cause they seem cheap for what they claim.


yeah, VHT was 'acquired' by... someone, can't remember the story. but the 'real' VHT is called Freyette now. so if you want the stuff VHT made it's name on then get Freyette stuff.

modern VHT stuff is just affordable, not horribly bad, Chinese stuff.
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Old 11-16-2012, 01:25 AM   #10
Bladed-Vaults
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Palmsandtides
Thanks for all the input. This is my first post on a forum and I'm glad I finally joined. I was used to VW forums where everyone acts like a turd and like they are super cool. At least people here know what they're talking about. The loudness issue is more for at practice. We have a shitty set up and I can't mic or line out. Live however if there's a board, the head has a line out which is awesome. Thanks again for the input.

My original cab idea was a VHT open back that comes with G12H30s speakers but was worried about the brand cause they seem cheap for what they claim.


vwvortex??????

there are still quite a few solutions for ya at practice. people assume a 30-50 watt 2x2 set up cant get loud. sure it can.
if you end up with a closed back cab (more than likely cuz easy to find)
set it up on a stand and point it at you. its all about the focus...
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Old 11-16-2012, 01:28 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gumbilicious
sounds like you already know what you're doing too.

don't underestimate our ability to be dumb, there is some bad advice floating around here too. but most of the regulars in this forums are pretty friendly, understanding and patient.



yeah, VHT was 'acquired' by... someone, can't remember the story. but the 'real' VHT is called Freyette now. so if you want the stuff VHT made it's name on then get Freyette stuff.

modern VHT stuff is just affordable, not horribly bad, Chinese stuff.


That's what I was afraid of. They talk of birch cabs and celestions but something didn't make sense price wise. Thank you for being honest and steering me a better way.

Honestly money isn't too much a problem, however I don't need a custom cab or anything from boutique companies. So I'm kinda stuck in a weird middle ground.

Just looking for something full with good bass response in a clean tone so I can tap my ass off and still have crystal clarity.
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Old 11-16-2012, 01:38 AM   #12
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i have two PPC212OB's. i really like them. i use them mostly with the 18 watt that i built and and orange dual terror. sometimes a heavily modded sovtek MIG50 and rarely my JTM45 (which is currently down).

place them about three or four feet from the wall and it projects nicely back and still forward. great for small-med med/lrg bars.if the stage isn't very far i bring something to elevate the cab a little bit.

one will get greenbacks once i stumble upon the right ones. at one point i did have a pair of EVH Celestions in one and it sounded pretty good, but they maxed out at 40 watts RMS and i couln't run the JTM45 or sovtek MIG50.

solidly built though.
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:26 AM   #13
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That's the same cab I have and my RA runs just at 4 and 8 ohms, I works really nice and I LOVE IT!
It will work specially good for cleans sir, really! Also pay attention to what trashedlostfdup said about the placement of the cab...
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Old 11-16-2012, 03:02 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Palmsandtides
That's what I was afraid of. They talk of birch cabs and celestions but something didn't make sense price wise. Thank you for being honest and steering me a better way.


birch cabs are made of a birch ply. birch ply is actually favorable cuz it's void free and super low resonance (low resonance means it doesn't shake and waste energy). voidless ply tend to have a more solid low end and doesn't flex or warp, but this isn't really an issue unless it's a closed back cab.

i would say birch ply would be a superior material in closed back cabs because of the attributes mentioned above. in an open back cab the material is just there there to support the speakers so it doesn't matter if it's birch or pine or maple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Palmsandtides
Honestly money isn't too much a problem, however I don't need a custom cab or anything from boutique companies. So I'm kinda stuck in a weird middle ground.

Just looking for something full with good bass response in a clean tone so I can tap my ass off and still have crystal clarity.


well, if you want a good bass response, then i'd heavily recommend a closed back cab, for multiple technical reasons i can get into only if you want.

closed back cabs are much more directional, they won't fill a room as much as a closed back but they [are usually] loud enough for most people's purposes. plus they have superior low end response and have more punch/attack (when equipped with proper speakers).

if you want a good modern tone with punch, low end and attack then i'd recommend an avatar contemporary 2x12 with a G12K-100 and a V30 (they complement each other pretty well for modern tones). it will be rated at 16 ohms wired in series or 4 ohms, or 4 ohm wired in parallel but i don't know what amp you use.

http://www.avatarspeakers.com/Contemporary%20212.htm

these are made to the same dimensions of a 2x12 orange cab, and you can customize you speaker setup. mind you i don't know where you from, if you are outside the US then it will be harder to get this cab but inside the US this is a great economical way to go.
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Last edited by gumbilicious : 11-16-2012 at 03:04 AM.
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Old 11-16-2012, 12:23 PM   #15
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I was also checking out Avatar cabs. I like the customizility. Glad that didn't pop up in spellcheck.

Was looking into g12h30's. Good idea?

Also I was reading some posts about closed vs. open backs and generally people say they are louder and have good sounding round bottom end. Like I said, I play mostly clean tapping parts or clean scale work with the occasional dirt box thrown in. Listen to anything by This Town Needs Guns and you'll hear exactly what I'm talking about. And that dude plays out of an Engl. weird choice if you ask me.
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:50 PM   #16
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^ might be on the vintage side of things if you prefer more modern tones- i'd also prefer a greenback/g12h30 mix, personally.
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Old 11-16-2012, 09:38 PM   #17
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FWIW, I've got a Mesa F-50 combo that I've converted into a head. I use an Avatar closed back 2x12 with the Eminence Texas Heat/Swamp Thang combo. Oh, I also use the clean channel for MTB and TTNG type stuff.

I really like it. Actually, I love my setup. Look for "big, clean" speakers. You'll also want to look into getting a nice compressor for the tappy stuff.
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Old 11-17-2012, 01:31 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaidBack
FWIW, I've got a Mesa F-50 combo that I've converted into a head. I use an Avatar closed back 2x12 with the Eminence Texas Heat/Swamp Thang combo. Oh, I also use the clean channel for MTB and TTNG type stuff.

I really like it. Actually, I love my setup. Look for "big, clean" speakers. You'll also want to look into getting a nice compressor for the tappy stuff.



Nice. Glad you know the sound I'm looking for and have a similar setup. That speaker combo sounds intense. Prolly sounds real good.

As for a comp, right now I have a cheap DOD Milkbox. It really is a nice pedal for $50.
Eventually a Barber Tone Press will make its way onto my board, givin I have the funds at that time.
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