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Old 03-28-2013, 02:29 AM   #101
Xiaoxi
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deHufter, would you still like a revision? I never got around to it but may give it a try soon.
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Old 03-28-2013, 04:46 PM   #102
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Yes please, would really appreciate it.
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Old 03-28-2013, 06:40 PM   #103
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aw shit, just when I thought I'm free, my work is having me do some last minute revisions. check back in another 2 weeks. sorry man.
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Old 03-28-2013, 07:11 PM   #104
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Hmmm. Fugues always confused me. I always found it very challenging to make the first dominant restatement match with anything centered around the tonic regardless of any suspensions that I used. Does the first restatement have to be IN THE KEY of the dominant or A TONAL SEQUENCE RELATIVE to the dominant?

EDIT: If it means anything, I think your piece is brilliant and beautiful.
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Old 03-28-2013, 07:17 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crice6505
Hmmm. Fugues always confused me. I always found it very challenging to make the first dominant restatement match with anything centered around the tonic regardless of any suspensions that I used. Does the first restatement have to be IN THE KEY of the dominant or A TONAL SEQUENCE RELATIVE to the dominant?

Keep in mind we're framing all this in an academic context. With the pure concept of fugue, you don't have to follow any of these tonic-dominant conventions, or even be tonal at all. But the whole purpose of this is to not only get a grasp on the handling of organized counterpoint, but also tonal harmony through polyphony.

So with that in mind, yes, the answer (what you refer to as dominant restatement) has to be in the dominant key. This kind of fugue is a barebones benchmark for your musical understanding. If you're having trouble smoothly modulating to the dominant (and back), it simply means you don't have a good enough grasp on tonal harmony/voice leading yet. It's very useful for figuring out your strengths and weaknesses.
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Old 03-28-2013, 07:29 PM   #106
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I have no idea about fugues except the limited posts I've read in this thread - mostly the OP and a few other posts from Xiaoxi. I've never really been into them but these posts and listening to the fugue (post sixty something) has given me ways to think about fugues I have not considered before that allow a greater new appreciation.

I might even have a go at writing something over this Easter weekend, keep in mind at this stage I don't have time to "study" fugues and any rules etc that they should follow. The only structure that I would follow is written in some of Xiaoxi's posts on page 1 - a rough guide as I understood it about when/how each voice should state the subject, counter subject, and free flow at certain times etc. - that and my own ear, tastes, and intuition. ;p
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Old 03-28-2013, 07:35 PM   #107
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^ear and intuition is very important. I don't write these things with rules in mind at all. I've absorbed the language and that's how I carry the things out. It just so happens that the language naturally avoids things like parallel 5ths, awkward intervals and resolutions, etc.

And I don't know if you saw before this post, but you can now view my fugue (with annotations) in video form in the OP. I don't know why I didn't post it up before since it's been online for a while now, but I think this is the easiest way to digest the most important info.
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Old 03-29-2013, 12:56 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xiaoxi
Keep in mind we're framing all this in an academic context. With the pure concept of fugue, you don't have to follow any of these tonic-dominant conventions, or even be tonal at all. But the whole purpose of this is to not only get a grasp on the handling of organized counterpoint, but also tonal harmony through polyphony.

So with that in mind, yes, the answer (what you refer to as dominant restatement) has to be in the dominant key. This kind of fugue is a barebones benchmark for your musical understanding. If you're having trouble smoothly modulating to the dominant (and back), it simply means you don't have a good enough grasp on tonal harmony/voice leading yet. It's very useful for figuring out your strengths and weaknesses.


So I would need to work on my transition? would a progression into a secondary dominant be a logical approach? (we are just discussing some of this stuff in our theory class) what are the structural rules for countersubject? this is something that I still do not completely understand. Once again, thank you for answering all these questions on the art of fugue writing. I also very much enjoy your piece in d minor.
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Old 03-31-2013, 01:56 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crice6505
So I would need to work on my transition? would a progression into a secondary dominant be a logical approach? (we are just discussing some of this stuff in our theory class) what are the structural rules for countersubject? this is something that I still do not completely understand. Once again, thank you for answering all these questions on the art of fugue writing. I also very much enjoy your piece in d minor.

Abandon the notion of harmony as something vertical. When you try to plan out a progression and think about things like secondary dominant, you are arranging harmony into vertical blocks in a sequence. Classical music, for the most part, does not work this way. You need to use the horizontal lines (melodies) to convince us of the key.
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Old 04-05-2013, 05:54 PM   #110
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deHufter:

I have reworked your fugue. I need to apologize because I got really really carried away and have basically reset what you did. BUT...I have good reasons for doing so. Mainly though, it's been a while since I've written this kind of thing and may have gone a little overboard in my enthusiasm...

Now, the main reason why I reset your fugue is because of the nature of your subject. It's actually quite a hard subject because it lacks character (not in a bad way necessarily). By that, I mean it doesn't have melodic/rhythmic quirks that a typical subject usually has which allow it to be easily distinguishable and have material to build off on. In contrast, this subject is a very linear series of half notes. So the only thing we can do is to make everything ELSE as interesting as possible. This is why I've created a new countersubject which is much more rhythmically and melodically actively than the one you had. Now, there are definitive identities and patterns which makes the fugue more nuanced than simply 8th and quarter notes just filling in the gaps.

Please trace how every step of the way relates to what comes before it. Take note of the 2 16ths rhythmic sets and how they're used as motifs to maintain coherence throughout the piece. And if you can, sing each voice/line all the way through while listening on multiple passes and compare how much easier it is to sing than the lines you wrote. That's not to sound conceited; I'm trying to bring home the point that strong, tight melodies are what makes for good fugues. Also, can you figure out what is happening in the 3rd episode? (m.31)

http://soundcloud.com/xwanhosting/dehufter-fugue


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I want to satisfy the undisclosed desires in your heart

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Old 05-02-2013, 08:00 PM   #111
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please excuse the weird formatting of the image of the score




i kind of crapped this out, and I'm pretty sure it breaks every major counterpoint rule, but I really like the way it sounds, especially harmonically

let me know what you guys think, also I'm waiting for Xiaoxi to kill me for raping the art of the fugue hahaha (look at all those parallel 5ths and octaves!)
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File Type: mid fugue.mid (2.7 KB, 16 views)
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