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Old 01-17-2013, 10:49 AM   #21
Geldin
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Y'know, plenty of people hit 14+ notes per second with raw alternate picking. For all practical purposes, that's fast enough for anyone except if you want to get signed to Shrapnel Records or something. Arguing about "theoretical speed" is utterly pointless, given that the vast majority of players will be able to hit a given speed with just about any technique they please.
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Old 01-17-2013, 10:54 AM   #22
Zaphod_Beeblebr
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Originally Posted by mdc
Did you try those examples?


Not that exact time, I was sitting in a café at uni, but I'm familiar enough with the ideas, how they feel to me and the kinds of players who actually play that way.

The theoretical advantages of one over the other are fine... but for whatever reason it just doesn't seem to actually manifest in any player I've heard or seen; whatever technique people seem to use, if you're really good at it straight picking (alternate or economy) seems to top out at around 15-16 notes per second. I honestly don't think the real limiting factor on picking is the something that the alternate/economy dichotomy addresses.
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:56 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Zaphod_Beeblebr
I honestly don't think the real limiting factor on picking is the something that the alternate/economy dichotomy addresses.

Agreed. This goes back to my first post - the difference between the two is only when changing strings, so the only conceivable time that economy picking would have a considerable advantage would be when moving through several adjacent strings, at which point most people would be using a sweeping motion anyway (meaning that you're not bothering to employ alternate picking to do something that it is inherently bad at).

Basically, the reasons people use economy/alternate picking is because of either a tonal preference (the less common of the two) or because they naturally like the feel better. Speed isn't involved at any point except the purely theoretical.
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Old 01-18-2013, 09:05 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by mdc
Good. My point proven exactly.


Not true.

That method of alt picking the scale involves inside and outside picking at various points within the scale fingering.

Eco picking any 2 strings is faster than inside or outside picking any 2 strings. Try it.

The point I'm making there, is that it's possible to alternate pick a single string faster than when string crossing.


No, you're missing the point I was making. You're right in what you say, but you're wrong in what you're applying it to.

In a 3NPS scale you HAVE to alternate pick the 2nd note, 5th note, 8th note and so on... Due to this, you're limited to how fast you can alternate pick properly.

Let's say for example, you can economy pick at 200bpm 16ths, but you can only alternate pick at 180bpm 16ths.

While you could cross strings at 200bpm, you could only play the alternate picked notes on the same string at 180bpm. Thus playing this scale you would be limited to playing at 180bpm unless you want uneven notes (which some players do and it still sounds good, but it's not usually desirable).

I see your point about being able to alternate pick faster on one string than crossing it, but I'm really aiming this example at when you've got to the point in your technique that you can alternate pick across strings pretty much as fast as on a single string (players like Paul Gilbert for example). Before this level of technique there won't really be a speed advantage to either style of picking since you can improve your technique of either anyway.

Whatever the case, I agree that the sound is the more important option. Hail - In GT some of us enjoy these debates over "the dumbest shit" just as you guys in MT enjoy torturing people about modes etc... I honestly find technique related discussions interesting.
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:05 AM   #25
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For most people, economy picking feels more natural at first and alternate picking takes more discipline. As other posters have said, economy picking does reduce the amount of unnecessary motion, but it sounds different than strict alternate picking.

Most players use a combination of techniques (legato, alternate, economy, sweep) depending on the situation. There's no right or wrong or best - just different sounds and different applicability to a sequence of notes.

Don't get caught up on which one will allow you play faster - there are amazing players who prefer either.
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Old 01-18-2013, 03:34 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Hail
not that it matters though, guitar sucks, picks suck

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Well that just did it for me. I'm switching to bass, and I suggest everybody else do the same.

The most advantageous point of making this switch, is that it seems like playing the bass gives you stronger opinions, and is easier to talk over!

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Old 01-20-2013, 01:41 PM   #27
Drew-A
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Originally Posted by Captaincranky
Well that just did it for me. I'm switching to bass, and I suggest everybody else do the same.

The most advantageous point of making this switch, is that it seems like playing the bass gives you stronger opinions, and is easier to talk over!


Easier to talk over - LOL!
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