Go Back   UG Community @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com > Instruments > Electric Guitar
User Name  
Password
Search:

Reply
Old 07-30-2014, 11:19 PM   #1
maddog61
Registered User
 
maddog61's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Super-SG?

So, I was thinking about general guitar types, specifically superstrats, and I wondered, "What if someone started making super-SG's?" Is there anyone here that would buy one? Cause I think it would go pretty well.
maddog61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2014, 11:23 PM   #2
FatalGear41
Battle Beagle!
 
FatalGear41's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Saturn's Rings
I would say that the "Super SG" has already been done. The SG Custom is probably my favorite solid-body guitar:

__________________
"It's only Rock and Roll until someone loses an eye!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregs1020
FatalGear41 knows the ways of the obscure. I hear it's just not with Gibsons. Beware, Halloween approaches...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaz91
DAMNIT FATALGEAR YOU RUINED MUH FLOW!
FatalGear41 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 12:33 AM   #3
Ippon
Amped
 
Ippon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Left Coast
SG Baritone?

__________________
Who To Listen To EG/GG&A and GB&C .. 7/ERG Field Marshall .. e-peen
Ippon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 07:49 AM   #4
Dave_Mc
Chirp and Swirl
 
Dave_Mc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Northern Ireland
I could be wrong but I don't think a floyd fits in a regular SG as it's too thin.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemurflames
I had a Blackstar. I felt like I was lied to by Chappers, that fat ****.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathbard
Blackstar can blow me; dodgey ****ers.


Dave_Mc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 08:57 AM   #5
Way Cool JR.
The 'L80s Man.
 
Way Cool JR.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
I know Tony Iommi has atleast a couple Gibson SG's with Floyd's on them. His appear to have been converted from the original TOM, you can see the Iron Crosses pluging the holes where the stop tail posts were. I have seen several Gibson SG's over the years with Floyd's installed on them, so it can be done.

Gibson also made a Diablo Tremolo SG that came with a Floyd from the factory. And Floyd Rose makes some Floyd's now that will install on LP's & SG's right onto the existing TOM & stop tail posts. The FR also comes with a lock nut/truss rod hybrid that replaces the truss rod cover on the Gibsons. You don't have to modify the guitar to install the FRX either, so no having to rout anything out for springs or drilling new post holes or anything.



The Diablo Tremolo


The Floyd Rose FRX for LP's, SG's, V's.

Last edited by Way Cool JR. : 07-31-2014 at 09:01 AM.
Way Cool JR. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 09:18 AM   #6
Dave_Mc
Chirp and Swirl
 
Dave_Mc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Northern Ireland
^ that's interesting, i didn't realise iommi had ones with floyds

the diablo looks a bit thicker than an sg, though.

i dunno.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemurflames
I had a Blackstar. I felt like I was lied to by Chappers, that fat ****.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathbard
Blackstar can blow me; dodgey ****ers.


Dave_Mc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 12:45 PM   #7
dspellman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
^^^ that would be the "super" in a super SG, I think. Thicker body, leastways in the center. Normally a Floyd won't install because it needs a pretty healthy depth for the sustain block to function correctly. A Kahler will fit (barely) because it doesn't require a rout as deep, nor does it need a spring cavity dug out of the back of the guitar.

Tony's guitars are, indeed, thicker than normal, but the Floyd isn't recessed, either.

Far as I know, the FRX isn't actually for sale yet. It's been showing up at NAMM for the past three or four years, and it's been on the website before. I've got five or six LP style guitars with Floyds, and I have absolutely no desire to tack an FR on something else.

My assessment so far: Floyd has tried this before and it was not well received and was discontinued. You can find photos of it by Google searching for Floyd Rose for Les Paul and digging through the images section. It had a wide array of small springs under the trem. The action on it was terrible. The FRX changes the spring system, and that's a good thing, but the versions I've tried don't even come close to a real one.

They've arm-wrestled with the locking nut issue, and at this point the best they've come up with is a behind-the-nut string locked mounted to a metal TRC. That's a train-wreck, IMHO. They're intending to use the same holes as are used for the stock TRC, and pretty much the same screws. Any vigorous work with the Floyd and those screws are going to widen the holes and the "locking" part of string lock is going to see that thing flopping around and you're going to see "solutions" to the problem posted online ("stuff a toothpick in the hole with some epoxy and then screw the screw back in"). It also makes it impossible to adjust the truss rod. In short, the whole rig is going to be for very occasional and very mild use, and so that someone with an R8 can show his buddies that he has a trem on his guitar. But in actual use it's a bit of a ****-up, since the neck angle on most LPs is wrong for a trem as well. This is one of those things that seems like a great idea, but that will suffer in the execution.
dspellman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 01:04 PM   #8
Mad-Mike_J83
Offset Infantry Division
 
Mad-Mike_J83's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Seattle
The other guitarist in my band plays one he built using Warmoth parts, don't know the full specs but I know it has a Floyd Rose. It uses a Strat Thickness body and a bolt-on neck. Sounds pretty sweet.

I think a super SG is possible with a flatmount Floyd, I have seen a Fender Mustang with a Floyd Rose installed on it (around the same thickness if not a little less than an SG), done RIGHT no less, there are inertia blocks for the Floyd Rose that are small enough to fit an SG body at standard thickness, but they seem to be rare/hard to come by. I actually have one in my collection of parts that I'm saving for some other project in the future - it came off a Jackson branded Floyd Rose but fits my German OFR fine.

The trick to do a carved top Floyd like on one of the Les Pauls is to have it recessed a little bit like the Axxes....Axis....however the heck you spell it is. Neil Schon, Paul Dean, and Alex Lifeson play those these days and I don't see them having problems with them.
__________________
My Current Mains
- 1996 Fender Jag-Stang with EMG Pickups
- 1998 Fender Jaguar with Cool Rails
- 1982 Hondo Paul Dean II (Stock)
- 2010 "Fender" Jazzmaster (Home built)
- 2013 Squier VM Bass VI (stock)

Lead Guitarist for Zombie Jihad
Mad-Mike_J83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 01:07 PM   #9
dspellman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
The "super SG" was the old Gibson L6S.

One of my issues with an SG is that the horns are too close to the neck. Unfortunately that's the visual selling point of the guitar. The side of my fretting hand gets nailed by the treble-side horn when I come up the neck to get to the upper frets.

Another is the continuing weakness of the neck/body joint. They moved the neck pickup early on to give the body some more "meat" in that area, but it's never been a strong neck.

Another is the cluster of pickup selector, 2V 2T pots and the output jack all in one spot.

And finally, the things remain neck heavy *most* of the time.

The L6S has about the same body thickness, but it's a single cut, and wider than the SG (looks like a road-killed LP). It has a much wider cutaway (wider than an LP, too) that's a dream to work with on the upper frets. Its single-cut body allows for a much stronger neck-body join. It has a completely different setup for pickup selection, etc. And it's never neck-heavy, in part because the neck strap attaches at a different place relative to the frets, and the body is deeper. Finally, it was Gibson's first 24-fret guitar.

This one's mine:



The controls are interesting -- the Volume is where you'd expect it to be. After that, the two additional pots are a treble rolloff (AKA, a traditional "tone" pot) and a mids rolloff. The six-way rotary switch is NOT a Varitone -- it's actually a six-position pickup selector. Besides the usual neck only, bridge only, neck+bridge, there are also in and out-of-phase both pickups in parallel mode and an out of phase in serial (standard humbucker) mode. The out of phase parallel mode choice adds a capacitor to the neck pickup to reduce its bass, and it does some other things. If you're looking for a wide/flat Les Paul, you'll be mostly disappointed, but if you want a much wider range of tones, you'll be rewarded.

Upper fret access is nearly unparalleled. This one has a fairly rare ebony fretboard (most are clear-coated maple, ala Fender, while the cheapest ones have rosewood fretboards). And since this is a '70's guitar, it has that Schaller-style harmonica bridge.
dspellman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 01:44 PM   #10
dspellman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
My idea of a Super SG would be

1. Neck-through construction with a multi-piece maple neck standard. Make it a smooth neck-body transition, ala the neck-through Carvins. Most SuperSGs would have a cap wood of some kind, but some could have the neck showing through the top.

2. Make the body about 10% larger, move the horns away from the body a bit, and offset the horns so that the upper horn point was a couple of frets further up the neck (and put the strap button on the end of it).

3. Carve the body top and bottom, so that it was thicker toward the bridge (allowing plenty of room for a real Floyd).

4. Spread out the controls and put the output jack on the bottom side of the guitar or, better yet, in a recess on the back side of the guitar (ala the older Brian Moore guitars), out of the way for both standing and seated play.

5. Redo the headstock to provide a straight pull from nut to tuner, and reduce the headstock tilt-back angle. Reduce the weight of the headstock at the same time.

6. Make 1 3/4" and 1 13/16ths" nut widths available (1 3/4" can be had with a Floyd locking nut) and make at least one of the 1 13/16ths" models available with a custom bridge that would also be 1/8th" wider at the saddles. Make jumbo frets and 16" radius fretboards available. Make an ebony fretboard standard, with other fretboard materials optional. All Super SGs would be 24-fret (all current SGs are 24-fret guitars with the neck pickup placed correctly for a 24-fret guitar; it's just that some have the upper 2 frets missing).

7. Accompany each SG with a coupon good for an initial PLEK setup from specific regional PLEK techs.

8. Use a proper UV-catalyzed polyester finish (this is not a traditional guitar; why have a crap "traditional" finish?). Make satin-finished backs of necks available, but keep the bodies gloss.

9. Offer the Super SG in optional woods (koa, black limba, etc.) on a true Custom Shop basis, in addition to production models. See http://www.acguitars.co.uk/acg_admin/wordpress/ for an example of what kinds of woods should be offered.

10. Add TRUE tonal options, including phase switching, active sweepable mids boosts, active EQ.

11. Make the Nighthawk Custom 3-pickup selection available with original M-III switching (five-way).

THIS would have me looking at an SG Super.
dspellman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 01:44 PM   #11
Dave_Mc
Chirp and Swirl
 
Dave_Mc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Northern Ireland
Quote:
Originally Posted by dspellman
^^^ that would be the "super" in a super SG, I think. Thicker body, leastways in the center. Normally a Floyd won't install because it needs a pretty healthy depth for the sustain block to function correctly. A Kahler will fit (barely) because it doesn't require a rout as deep, nor does it need a spring cavity dug out of the back of the guitar.

Tony's guitars are, indeed, thicker than normal, but the Floyd isn't recessed, either.


Yeah I suppose that'd be fair enough- plenty of superstrats adjust the strat shape a little so I suppose adjusting the SG shape (or thickness) a little would still allow it to be called a super-SG, as long as it's still recognisably SG-based (and the diablo is).

And yeah being flatmount would help, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad-Mike_J83
I think a super SG is possible with a flatmount Floyd, I have seen a Fender Mustang with a Floyd Rose installed on it (around the same thickness if not a little less than an SG), done RIGHT no less, there are inertia blocks for the Floyd Rose that are small enough to fit an SG body at standard thickness, but they seem to be rare/hard to come by. I actually have one in my collection of parts that I'm saving for some other project in the future - it came off a Jackson branded Floyd Rose but fits my German OFR fine.


that's a good point
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemurflames
I had a Blackstar. I felt like I was lied to by Chappers, that fat ****.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathbard
Blackstar can blow me; dodgey ****ers.


Dave_Mc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 02:02 PM   #12
dspellman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad-Mike_J83

The trick to do a carved top Floyd like on one of the Les Pauls is to have it recessed a little bit like the Axxes....Axis....however the heck you spell it is. Neil Schon, Paul Dean, and Alex Lifeson play those these days and I don't see them having problems with them.


Agile, Carvin, Gibson and Epiphone all have Floyd models available in carved-top LPs. In fact, Neal Schon had the second Floyd (after Eddy) on his LP, and has played with them ever since.

The rarely seen Neal Schon sig guitar has a different neck angle, a smooth neck heel and a full-thickness LP body with a Floyd recessed into the body. Gibson took the Schon-designed neck heel and turned it into the Axcess (that's how you spell it). The stock Axcess is thinner than a normal Les Paul and weight-relieved. My custom Axcess Custom is actually chambered, and the Alex Lifeson model is a solid body (but with the same thinner Axcess body).

Gibson briefly had the Studio Shred guitar (a dead-stock studio with a Floyd added for around $1200 street price) available, and has a Traditional Pro with a Floyd in the catalog this year, but it's quite rare to find one on the ground anywhere.

Epiphone has a Floyd-equipped model available, with the bridge pickup moved noticeably toward the neck pickup. The guitar is otherwise unremarkable.

Carvin has had Floyds available on its carved-top series (both double and single cutaway) since they were introduced, and there are both 22 and 24 fret models available. The single cut (CS) models have a smoothed neck heel, but it's not cut away like the Axcess. The bodies on these are *slightly* thinner than a standard LP, but solid.

Agile has Floyds available across its line of LP-style "AL" guitars. The 24-fret AL-2000 Floyd actually has all 24 frets available (the 24th fret is where the 22nd fret would be on a standard LP). To do that, the neck is about 3/4" longer and the bridge/bridge pickup are moved about 3/4" toward the neck pickup, with the neck pickup unchanged in position. This maintains the original scale. In addition, the neck heel on this ONE model is "tilted", which surprisingly gives a nearly Axcess-like comfort to playing up the board. The smaller, truncated cutaway horn also assists in upper fret access, and the result is a stunningly playable guitar (full thickness, solid -- as in heavy -- body) with extended capabilities for under $300. The AL-3100 is available with Floyd, and some are available with 24 frets, but the neck heel is stock in all cases. A bit over $400. The AL-3200 is an amazing neck-through guitar with an Axcess-like smoothed neck heel and a tummy cut. It's not yet available stock with a Floyd, but it's available as a custom-build guitar (several months) with a Floyd installed. Other options, besides a wide variety of finishes, include 22 or 24-fret board and optional scales, such as 25.5", 27" and 28.65", stainless frets, and a chambered upper (bass side) wing that reduces weight while NOT affecting tone (thanks to the neck-through construction).
dspellman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 02:59 PM   #13
maddog61
Registered User
 
maddog61's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Interesting...I didn't realize that there were already that many variations.
maddog61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 03:41 PM   #14
KnugenXVI
Banned
 
KnugenXVI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Sweden
SG's are too neck heavey. They want to hit the floor and break.
KnugenXVI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 04:23 PM   #15
slapsymcdougal
Funyuns ho!
 
slapsymcdougal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Maybe you could stick an FR on an SG-esque body if you built it as a neck-through? Would solve the weak neck joint issue, at least.

Could also shape the heel for greater comfort(though TBH, I've never felt that was an issue with SGs, so it would kinda be cosmetic).

Someone's probably built one that way before, so...
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by GbAdimDb5m7
You don't know every cyborg penis or eye type in the world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'

Quote:
Originally Posted by PC Toshan
Quality polis, MacGregor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thegurfzone
you're winning this argument and i don't like it.

Last edited by slapsymcdougal : 07-31-2014 at 04:24 PM.
slapsymcdougal is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:10 PM.

Forum Archives / About / Terms of Use / Advertise / Contact / Ultimate-Guitar.Com © 2014
Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.