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Old 10-10-2014, 02:41 PM   #6421
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i think its mad gay
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Is the officer going to ask for the butt, so he or she can check whether it is hot?


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Old 10-10-2014, 02:57 PM   #6422
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Originally Posted by Mark Roxx
So, what do you think of the omnipotence paradox? I think it holds up, as long as you argue it correctly...

Which one?
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Old 10-10-2014, 03:53 PM   #6423
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Originally Posted by WhiskeyFace
According to who? The word has zillions of interpretations.


.....everybody in the world? I dunno.
You know, big white bearded dude in the sky. Or entity made of intergalactic plasma outside our universe controlling our minds, or whatever. You can strip any definition of "god" to a bare minimum, and work with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Roxx
So, what do you think of the omnipotence paradox? I think it holds up, as long as you argue it correctly...


I assume it's the "can god create a super big rock he can't lift" one.

This is another case of defining the terms correctly. It's like "omniscience", where you can't just say "he knows EVERYTHING, in like, everything, everywhere, somehow", but have to bound it somehow (because ultimately, being omniscient means something, and that an omniscient being has some certain attributes, so you need to know what those are actually).

In fact, the definition of omniscience I gave isn't that good either. It doesn't take into account stuff like abstract concepts, etc, which could be open to debate. Like, does God know what 2+2 is? Does he know the proof of the Riemann hypothesis? Does that knowledge depend on something intrinsic to the problem he knows himself, or does it depend on what we (as humans) create and construct? I.e is that "proof" he knows, the same concept of "proof" as we use, or is it something different?


Either way, back to omnipotence. The problem is with what you mean by "agency" and "power".
Omnipotence is defined as having "unlimited power". Well, does that mean God is just a lightbulb that is always on? I doubt so.
But I guess the common definition gives God the power of agency first (where he can "choose" to do stuff), and then the "power" to do whatever he chooses to do. If by "power" you just say "the ability to perform an action you seek out to do" (which I'm not even sure is such a powerful definition either), then you find out more inconsistencies, since you have to define "action". Is any "action" whatever hypothetical thing you can come up with in the English language?
Like, is "create a rock not even he can lift" an action? If so, then is "create an un-creatable rock" one too? Can I come up with any nonsense and say it's an "action"? Like "Can God put a cat inside a taco, so that when the cat meows the taco farts unicorns in the 5th dimension, which can only be seen by Jon Snow, whom oh, he also created out of thin air, and has 7 dicks" ? Or "Can God supercalifragilisticexpialidate his way through a corn maze" ?

I think that is the core problem. Some things are just nonsense and paradoxes on their own right, and it makes no sense to even give any meaning to them, other than them being the union of different concepts and stuff we can describe using the English language.

Last edited by gonzaw : 10-10-2014 at 04:13 PM.
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Old 10-10-2014, 04:13 PM   #6424
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Surely you acknowledge that the word "God" can mean a vast array of things depending on who you're talking to. Why else did you put "conscious" in scare quotes
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Old 10-10-2014, 04:37 PM   #6425
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Hmm, actually I think it's more about trying to define the maximal properties something called "god" could have, that are not inconsistent, and make sense.
So basically this is an optimization problem trying to define God, with the bounds that the definition can't be inconsistent.

I wonder what the "absolute greatest consistent God" definition is though.
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Old 10-10-2014, 04:44 PM   #6426
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There isn't one. Family resemblances, yo.
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