Go Back   UG Community @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com > Music > Musician Talk
User Name  
Password
Search:

View Poll Results: Are you able to transcribe your own musical ideas?
Yes 30 83.33%
No 2 5.56%
WTF, how on Earth do I do that? 4 11.11%
Voters: 36. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
Old 06-10-2014, 09:26 AM   #21
bassalloverthe
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by rootsofmy
FML. Why do people tend to NOT see "if", "I'd rather" and all that?
I keep saying that of those two feeling is MORE important, but isn't the only thing to get while playing. Bloody A.


Some of us see theory as one method of "feeling it." Were defensive because were presented with a false dichotomy
bassalloverthe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2014, 03:01 PM   #22
Dave_Mc
Chirp and Swirl
 
Dave_Mc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Northern Ireland
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazysam23_Atax
^
Why can't you have both feeling AND knowing? The only reason I see to not have the knowing is pure and simple laziness.


So if someone comes along who has a nobel prize but who just messes with guitar for a bit of fun you're gonna say he/she is lazy if he/she doesn't know all the theory?

Obviously that's an extreme case, but I think it's valid. For some people it's just a bit of fun. The other thing is you could make that case for just about every different subject in the world.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathbard
We had a guy in the band admit that he liked Nickelback. We immediately started looking for his replacement.


Dave_Mc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2014, 05:12 PM   #23
crazysam23_Atax
Feuergesicht
 
crazysam23_Atax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by rootsofmy
FML. Why do people tend to NOT see "if", "I'd rather" and all that?
I keep saying that of those two feeling is MORE important, but isn't the only thing to get while playing. Bloody A.

Because I think BOTH are important. You're acting like, "If I had to choose, I'd pick feeling". And I'm saying, "Choose both". To me, it's not really one or the other. As bassalloverthe said, it's a false dichotomy on your part.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_Mc
So if someone comes along who has a nobel prize but who just messes with guitar for a bit of fun you're gonna say he/she is lazy if he/she doesn't know all the theory?

I'm gonna say that, if he or she is all about having fun and feeling it...fine. BUT, I would also say if you want to take it seriously, having theory in your back pocket (so, to speak) is a good thing.

Quote:
Obviously that's an extreme case, but I think it's valid. For some people it's just a bit of fun. The other thing is you could make that case for just about every different subject in the world.

Yeah, lol. It'd be like, if I just wanted to have fun studying physics, I'd get a lot further if I knew the basics of physics laws and equations and such, right? Of course, music and physics aren't comparable, but I would advocate studying the "theory" of physics (read: laws, equations, etc.). In the same way, I would advocate learning music theory.



You would think of a really oddball scenario for me to have to justify, wouldn't you?
__________________
Tunes?

Bandcamp

Now working on my upcoming EP "Discarnate". See the expected track list on my bandcamp.



Terry Prachett is funnier than you! Discworld

Last edited by crazysam23_Atax : 06-10-2014 at 05:13 PM.
crazysam23_Atax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2014, 06:40 PM   #24
Dave_Mc
Chirp and Swirl
 
Dave_Mc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Northern Ireland
I agree it's a false dichotomy.

And yeah, I'm gonna pick holes in your argument . At the same time I'd say it's valid for virtually any subject. That's an extreme case, but less extreme cases (say even if someone has a degree in another subject I'd say it's fair enough) are still valid and still prove my point. IMO.

Regarding the physics thing... yeah, it'd help to have some background there, but at the same time I wouldn't tell someone who was doing it for fun that they were lazy at all, and there's a big difference between knowing a bit of the theory (which is a good thing, I agree), and acting like anyone who doesn't know *all" the theory is lazy (if that's even possible, since there's always more to learn).

I mean, I don't know as much theory as you guys do but I think I know a fair bit considering I'm just doing it for fun. If someone who wanted to learn physics just for fun came along and didn't want to learn anything, then maybe that is lazy (I disagree, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt)- but there's a big difference between saying you don't want to learn what an electron is and saying you don't want to mess with advanced quantum theory. And that's kind of what I'm saying here.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathbard
We had a guy in the band admit that he liked Nickelback. We immediately started looking for his replacement.


Dave_Mc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2014, 06:45 PM   #25
British_Steal
UG Member
 
British_Steal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Up here in space Im looking down on you My lasers trace Everything you do
Yes.

Practice, Practice, Practice.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Spoon
Unless you're sure she likes you, telling her you like her has a 110% chance of failing.

But hey, at least you have a 10% chance of absolutely guaranteeing failure.
British_Steal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2014, 07:03 PM   #26
bassalloverthe
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_Mc
I agree it's a false dichotomy.

And yeah, I'm gonna pick holes in your argument . At the same time I'd say it's valid for virtually any subject. That's an extreme case, but less extreme cases (say even if someone has a degree in another subject I'd say it's fair enough) are still valid and still prove my point. IMO.

Regarding the physics thing... yeah, it'd help to have some background there, but at the same time I wouldn't tell someone who was doing it for fun that they were lazy at all, and there's a big difference between knowing a bit of the theory (which is a good thing, I agree), and acting like anyone who doesn't know *all" the theory is lazy (if that's even possible, since there's always more to learn).

I mean, I don't know as much theory as you guys do but I think I know a fair bit considering I'm just doing it for fun. If someone who wanted to learn physics just for fun came along and didn't want to learn anything, then maybe that is lazy (I disagree, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt)- but there's a big difference between saying you don't want to learn what an electron is and saying you don't want to mess with advanced quantum theory. And that's kind of what I'm saying here.



To continue with the analogy, I see it more like someone who claims to understand the concepts of quantum mechanics, but doesnt know or want to know what an electron is.

AND, to make an argument, I would say that even you would be happy to learn as much complex theory as you could. You are simply willing to do it at a pace and intensity comfortable to you, which is to be encouraged. Like the difference between saying, "Thats something I could know if I wanted to, and eventually I might want to," and, "Thats something I dont need to know because Im fine without it."

But, at the same time, I would consider myself to know as much about theory as more or less anyone on this board--even so, there are concepts that are completely foreign to me. Like several months ago reading about James Tenneys theories on harmony. Also, only in the last year have I dabbled in standard JI notation (septimal commas, syntonic commas, and accidentals the likes of which I had never seen). One thing Ive been putting off for years is learning how to properly read chant noation. Should I blame myself for not knowing something I previously had no access to? Does it diminish my playing that I didnt know?

So to a point, I agree with you as well

Last edited by bassalloverthe : 06-10-2014 at 07:05 PM.
bassalloverthe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2014, 10:00 PM   #27
Life Is Brutal
Master of Modulation
 
Life Is Brutal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The Omnivium
Yes.

The problem for me is remembering them before being able to write them down.
__________________
|GP5 Compositions|
V Classical and Jazz centric Tech Death V
Life Is Brutal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2014, 03:49 PM   #28
Dave_Mc
Chirp and Swirl
 
Dave_Mc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Northern Ireland
Quote:
Originally Posted by bassalloverthe
(a) To continue with the analogy, I see it more like someone who claims to understand the concepts of quantum mechanics, but doesnt know or want to know what an electron is.

(b) AND, to make an argument, I would say that even you would be happy to learn as much complex theory as you could. You are simply willing to do it at a pace and intensity comfortable to you, which is to be encouraged. Like the difference between saying, "Thats something I could know if I wanted to, and eventually I might want to," and, "Thats something I dont need to know because Im fine without it."

(c) But, at the same time, I would consider myself to know as much about theory as more or less anyone on this board--even so, there are concepts that are completely foreign to me. Like several months ago reading about James Tenneys theories on harmony. Also, only in the last year have I dabbled in standard JI notation (septimal commas, syntonic commas, and accidentals the likes of which I had never seen). One thing Ive been putting off for years is learning how to properly read chant noation. Should I blame myself for not knowing something I previously had no access to? Does it diminish my playing that I didnt know?

(d) So to a point, I agree with you as well


(a) I'm not really sure what you mean here- I'm not sure if you're referring to my point or crazysam23_Atax's

(b) Agreed.

I mean, when I started to learn guitar I had no intention of learning any theory, really (though I already knew a bit from piano and certainly wasn't "anti-theory" like some guitar players are, either). But as time's gone on I've learnt more and more- as you said/implied, you don't want to put people off and with some encouragement you can have people learning without even realising it, rather than annoying them and maybe making them quit in frustration.

(c) I don't know anywhere near as much as the regulars here.

But yeah I agree with you- it's a fine line between making a genuine judgement call that something just plain isn't worth your time because you'll never (or hardly ever) use it (which is a good thing, IMO), and being anti-intellectual (which is a bad thing, IMO).

I mean in most subjects once you hit a certain level you have to specialise down and ignore other things.

(d)

From what I've seen of your post there (apart from (a) which went over my head ) I don't disagree with you at all.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathbard
We had a guy in the band admit that he liked Nickelback. We immediately started looking for his replacement.


Dave_Mc is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:46 AM.

Forum Archives / About / Terms of Use / Advertise / Contact / Ultimate-Guitar.Com © 2014
Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.