03-15-2013, 01:47 PM
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#21 | |
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Master of Modulation
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The Omnivium
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Quote:
No, it stays on 5, V 6/4 is just saying the suspensions over it, like; 6 - 5 4 - 3 The 6/4 is to notate suspension markings rather than inversion. But, it sounds virtually the same as a I 6/4 (2nd inversion) moving to a V 5/3 (Root position). How did you go about learning this, and what do you call a Cadential 6/4? |
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03-15-2013, 03:17 PM
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#22 | |
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Micropolyphoner
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
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What you'll sometimes see notated in an analysis if there's roman numerals + figured bass is something like: Code:
Which is actually denoting a C6/4 to V to I, but I guess because the C6/4 is really a dominant chord in a way you just indicated the V being extended. That's how I notated it in my theory courses. |
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03-15-2013, 05:18 PM
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#23 |
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sup
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Boston, MA (in spirit)
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I can see how it could be framed that way, but if we take into account consistency, it starts to not make much sense.
If I understand this correctly, you're basing the roman numeral on the bass tone, regardless of harmonic context/function. So what's gonna happen when you have something like a D7 in 1st inversion as a dominant to V in C? The bass tone is F#. There is no roman numeral for that. And furthermore, it obscures the true place of harmonies. A vi becomes I 6/3? etc...
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Modes and scales are dumb and useless. Stop learning them. No, seriously. Analyzing Brahms: Insights to Help Us Improve Our Music Nelsean attempting to pronounce my name lol I got Last.fm. Don't know why... |
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03-15-2013, 05:25 PM
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#24 |
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Micropolyphoner
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
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Not at all. The roman numeral isn't there because of the bass note, it's denoting function because the C6/4 chord can be interpreted as a decoration/extension of a dominant chord.
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03-15-2013, 05:28 PM
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#25 | |
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sup
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Boston, MA (in spirit)
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Quote:
Right, but that doesn't solve the consistency issue. If this is V 6/4, then what is G 6/4 (D G B)?
__________________
Modes and scales are dumb and useless. Stop learning them. No, seriously. Analyzing Brahms: Insights to Help Us Improve Our Music Nelsean attempting to pronounce my name lol I got Last.fm. Don't know why... |
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03-15-2013, 05:37 PM
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#26 |
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The Writing Writer
Join Date: Jan 2009
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The 64 refers to figured bass symbols and the V refers to the dominant function. Meaning, the 64 refers to a sixth (E) and a fourth (C) above the 'root', which is G. You have to remember figured bass was around in a time before chords as we know them existed; a chord spelled G E C (from bottom to top) was, in fact, a 'G' chord - not a 'C' chord.
Last edited by timeconsumer09 : 03-15-2013 at 05:38 PM. |
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03-15-2013, 05:38 PM
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#27 |
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Micropolyphoner
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
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That's what the C in C6/4 is for. It means that it's a cadential 6/4 which everyone understands to mean I6/4 resolving onto a V chord. You wouldn't ever see that notation outside of the context of a cadence so the issue doesn't come up at all.
It's inconsistent because the C6/4 is an inconsistent harmonic device. It's a I chord that doesn't function as a I chord, it functions as a V chord.  It's just for analysis purposes anyway. If you don't like it, don't use it. |
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03-15-2013, 05:51 PM
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#28 | |||
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sup
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Boston, MA (in spirit)
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Yes, but the original figured bass didn't include roman analysis at all. It only had numbers to indicate intervals above the bass. Quote:
Quote:
__________________
Modes and scales are dumb and useless. Stop learning them. No, seriously. Analyzing Brahms: Insights to Help Us Improve Our Music Nelsean attempting to pronounce my name lol I got Last.fm. Don't know why... |
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03-15-2013, 06:08 PM
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#29 | ||
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Micropolyphoner
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
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Quote:
But how does this defeat that purpose? You can still abstractly understand V(C6/4 - 5/3) I in any key. Oh wait I think I see the confusion (pun)... The C in C6/4 stands for 'cadential' not the note 'C'. So regardless of what key you're in you'd still say V(C6/4). Quote:
True, but this is just notating a (very common) special case in which you have a second inversion I chord resolving to a V chord. If the I6/4 was doing something else, you'd just call it a I6/4, not specifically a C6/4. |
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03-15-2013, 06:25 PM
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#30 |
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sup
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Boston, MA (in spirit)
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Ohh ok, yea I've never seen "C6/4". But that makes sense.
__________________
Modes and scales are dumb and useless. Stop learning them. No, seriously. Analyzing Brahms: Insights to Help Us Improve Our Music Nelsean attempting to pronounce my name lol I got Last.fm. Don't know why... |
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03-15-2013, 08:26 PM
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#31 |
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I think, therefore, I am.
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Charlotte, NC
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I think it has a lot to do with the particular school of thought one comes from. I have seen a C6/4 analyzed as such and I've also seen it thought of as a suspension. Either way works I suppose. I've also seem analyses that take a step back and label massive sections as V and thing of the C6/4 as simply an ornament. It's a very Schenkerian approach, but, I suppose it that works best for you then that's okay.
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03-15-2013, 09:04 PM
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#32 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2013
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Semantics - depends on where you learned your theory. The reasoning behind calling in C6/4 or V6-5/4-3 (double sus on the V) is strictly to distinguish it from a functional I chord, since the idea of a "dominant I" even more confusing. Most of the time, inversion symbols indicate nothing more than which note is in the bass given a root, but on occasion it's meant to convey the actual intervals above the bass without indicating a root. That's how a V 6/4 can mean "a chord built on the 5th scale degree with intervals of a 4th and 6th above", rather than "a V chord in 2nd inversion". |
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