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Old 03-13-2013, 11:34 AM   #21
gerraguitar
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Originally Posted by cdgraves
The only thing D has going for it is being the first chord in the progression, which is rarely definitive of key. It spends twice as much time on G as the other chords, the harmony resolves to G, and every melody in song first perfectly into G, including the guitar solos. It's pretty hard to say that it feels like it resolves to D when it never actually does.


Ok first of all....it's not rare to see the first harmony of a song be the key...

second, if you've played through the song at least once, not even the whole way through, you'd realize that D works just as well as G. Yes, we all know that the key sig shows G and theres no such thing as the key of D mixo, but you can certainly play in D mixo, I don't think it's hard to say it resolves to D, but G is cool too, G makes it sound more hip than it actually is because you can land on the B a lot which has that 6th sound for those who feel it in D.
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Old 03-13-2013, 02:18 PM   #22
MaggaraMarine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdgraves
The only thing D has going for it is being the first chord in the progression, which is rarely definitive of key. It spends twice as much time on G as the other chords, the harmony resolves to G, and every melody in song first perfectly into G, including the guitar solos. It's pretty hard to say that it feels like it resolves to D when it never actually does.

IMO it just feels more like D major. I would end the song with a D chord. You hear it differently than I do. But that's just how I feel it goes.

EDIT: Listen to Wicked Game. It's kind of similar but just in minor (Bm-A-E). And IMO it's clearly in B minor. But otherwise it's a similar chord progression, only in minor.
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Last edited by MaggaraMarine : 03-13-2013 at 03:36 PM.
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Old 03-13-2013, 07:17 PM   #23
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Here's a video of Lynyrd Skynyrd playing the song in 1976, and ending it with a 30-second roll off on G.

youtube.com/watch?v=Y2iu05rg5Bo

Tell me again how you'd end that song someone else wrote?

If you want to compare apples to apples, here find a few of the million+ songs built on the same root motion and actually listen to what makes the difference between tonicizing the first and last chord in the progression (or, in this case, retrogression).

Listen to the song "Franklin's Tower", by the Grateful Dead. It's A G D, but the tonic is A. Why? RHYTHM. The rhythmic treatment of the G as a passing harmony sets up up a functional I IV vamp. With equal rhythmic emphasis given to both A and D, you actually have to defer to which one comes first, because a V-I vamp is aurally disorienting, while a I IV is completely normal.

"Sweet Home Alabama" treats all three of its chords as a functional harmony, which is the tradition of blues-based three chord music - to use the simplest harmonies possible to condense the tonic-predominant-dominant progression into a single phrase.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gerraguitar
Ok first of all....it's not rare to see the first harmony of a song be the key...

second, if you've played through the song at least once, not even the whole way through, you'd realize that D works just as well as G. Yes, we all know that the key sig shows G and theres no such thing as the key of D mixo, but you can certainly play in D mixo, I don't think it's hard to say it resolves to D, but G is cool too, G makes it sound more hip than it actually is because you can land on the B a lot which has that 6th sound for those who feel it in D.


I said it's rarely definitive, meaning that it alone is rarely the only factor to consider when there is ambiguity. You can't really analyze a piece of music by looking at the harmonies alone - their treatment in terms of rhythm, melody, and form are what define the overall harmonic context.

And where is this mysterious resolution to D? there are three chords in that piece of shit song, and none of them beg for resolution to D. Dmajor to Cmajor, however, does beg for resolution to G, and its rhythmic treatment in the song reinforces that.

If you want to hear what a song actually built on a I-bVII, listen to some Grateful Dead or Phish, they're all over the mixolydian. "Sweet Home Alabama" is just plain G major. No need to make this complicated.

Last edited by cdgraves : 03-13-2013 at 07:29 PM.
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Old 03-14-2013, 05:51 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdgraves
Here's a video of Lynyrd Skynyrd playing the song in 1976, and ending it with a 30-second roll off on G.

youtube.com/watch?v=Y2iu05rg5Bo

Tell me again how you'd end that song someone else wrote?

If you want to compare apples to apples, here find a few of the million+ songs built on the same root motion and actually listen to what makes the difference between tonicizing the first and last chord in the progression (or, in this case, retrogression).

Listen to the song "Franklin's Tower", by the Grateful Dead. It's A G D, but the tonic is A. Why? RHYTHM. The rhythmic treatment of the G as a passing harmony sets up up a functional I IV vamp. With equal rhythmic emphasis given to both A and D, you actually have to defer to which one comes first, because a V-I vamp is aurally disorienting, while a I IV is completely normal.

"Sweet Home Alabama" treats all three of its chords as a functional harmony, which is the tradition of blues-based three chord music - to use the simplest harmonies possible to condense the tonic-predominant-dominant progression into a single phrase.



I said it's rarely definitive, meaning that it alone is rarely the only factor to consider when there is ambiguity. You can't really analyze a piece of music by looking at the harmonies alone - their treatment in terms of rhythm, melody, and form are what define the overall harmonic context.

And where is this mysterious resolution to D? there are three chords in that piece of shit song, and none of them beg for resolution to D. Dmajor to Cmajor, however, does beg for resolution to G, and its rhythmic treatment in the song reinforces that.

If you want to hear what a song actually built on a I-bVII, listen to some Grateful Dead or Phish, they're all over the mixolydian. "Sweet Home Alabama" is just plain G major. No need to make this complicated.

I just said how I feel about the song. I just feel like it resolves to D, what can I do about it? Your explanations don't make me hear like it goes to G, I just feel like the tonal center is D, OK? I would end the song with D. But sometimes it's cool to end the song with something other than the I chord because it kind of leaves it "open". For example Wicked Game ends with E major chord. And I think that song is in B minor. As I said, otherwise the chords are similar to Sweet Home Alabama but the first chord is minor.

But this is how I feel it, and you feel it in your way. We may not hear the same song the same way. Everybody hears things a bit differently.

And now there are two guys who feel like it's in D so I'm not the only one. And if AlanHB is correct, even the band doesn't know whether it's in D or G.
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Old 03-14-2013, 09:12 AM   #25
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Lynyrd Skynyrd doesn't have to know 2+2=4, but it's still true.
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Old 03-14-2013, 02:48 PM   #26
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Are you talking about the circle of fifth?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_of_fifths
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Old 04-08-2013, 10:08 AM   #27
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This topic is probably mostly forgotten by now but with the help of my teacher I have figured it out. The concept is actually playin a FOURTH away and it goes like this. It works with progressions of dominant chords. Basically you treat each chord change as a key change, I'll give and example so it makes more sense.
Our chord progression will be: A7, D9, E7, bluesy I IV V kinda deal.
Since technically each key has 1 dominant chord we can easily figure out the key changes.
The A7 belongs to the key of D so play A mixolydian over it.
The D9 belongs to the key of G so play A Dorian over it.
And finally the E7 belongs to the key of A so play A major over it.

And that's it! It sounds pretty cool and gives you a unique sound that still sounds "right".
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