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Old 01-07-2013, 03:44 AM   #121
SlackerBabbath
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Originally Posted by MadClownDisease
I think anyone who thinks the law needs to intervene every time they feel insulted just needs to stop being such a big baby.

This isn't a case of just anyone feeling insulted, it's a case of showing contempt to the law. For the law to operate correctly, it, and the people who represent it, requires a certain amount of respect from the public, if it was considered as perfectly OK to be abusive towards police officers without fear of prosecution they would no longer be as effective at their job of enforcing the law.
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Old 01-07-2013, 03:58 AM   #122
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Not being particularly well versed in law, I'd say wouldn't this come under verbal assault?
In which case, words by themselves are not sufficient, but teamed with a threatening manner can definitely be illegal. At least that's my understanding.

Insulting a police officer is pants down ******ed. The only time I can see anyone doing it is with a threatening, and non complying manner towards the officer, so I struggle to see when anyone can do this legally to the police officer. The most I can understand is accidentally letting slip a swear word or something.

And lastly, if it's in public it can probably come under disturbing the peace.

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Originally Posted by SlackerBabbath
When someone tries to argue that an abusive act towards a police officer (or anyone else for that matter) should be perfectly legal and socially acceptable, then that person is quite obviously socially ******ed.

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A police officer represents the law in public, in exactly the same way that a judge represents the law in court. You wouldn't expect to get away with showing contempt to the law by flipping off a judge in a courtroom so why should you expect to get away with showing contempt to the law by flipping off a police officer in public?

Both of these.
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Old 01-07-2013, 07:29 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by SlackerBabbath
This isn't a case of just anyone feeling insulted, it's a case of showing contempt to the law. For the law to operate correctly, it, and the people who represent it, requires a certain amount of respect from the public, if it was considered as perfectly OK to be abusive towards police officers without fear of prosecution they would no longer be as effective at their job of enforcing the law.

I agree people should respect what police do, and I can see what you mean but I feel like for contempt of the law to be illegal it has to be shown by... well, committing crimes.
For the police to do their job, their authority needs to be respected in cases where they are actually enforcing the law, which is exactly what the law already says. If you're committing a crime, it's a lot easier if you respect the police's authority and stop or accept arrest, and if you don't accept their authority you get arrested. If you impede their work... again you can get arrested or removed. If you're just not being respectful, then you might be a bit of a twat, but that doesn't mean you're doing anything against the law (or even would).

Of course it would be better if people respected the law because of what it does rather than simply in case they get arrested, but that seems a matter for education and culture, not legal recourse if you fail to act respectfully.

If simply acting disrespectfully towards the law is illegal, most anyone that disagrees with it will find themselves arrested, which isn't really very constructive at all.
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Old 01-07-2013, 07:44 AM   #124
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Earning peoples respect through threat of legal punishment...

seems legit.
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Old 01-07-2013, 07:56 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by MadClownDisease
I agree people should respect what police do, and I can see what you mean but I feel like for contempt of the law to be illegal it has to be shown by... well, committing crimes.
For the police to do their job, their authority needs to be respected in cases where they are actually enforcing the law, which is exactly what the law already says. If you're committing a crime, it's a lot easier if you respect the police's authority and stop or accept arrest, and if you don't accept their authority you get arrested. If you impede their work... again you can get arrested or removed. If you're just not being respectful, then you might be a bit of a twat, but that doesn't mean you're doing anything against the law (or even would).

Of course it would be better if people respected the law because of what it does rather than simply in case they get arrested, but that seems a matter for education and culture, not legal recourse if you fail to act respectfully.

If simply acting disrespectfully towards the law is illegal, most anyone that disagrees with it will find themselves arrested, which isn't really very constructive at all.

'Disagreement' is defined differently to 'disrespectfull', for example, you can 'respectfully disagree' with someone. Disagreeing with the law and disrespecting it are therefore two different things. In a court of law, you can, to make a point, 'respectfully disagree' with the law and be perfectly safe from prosecution, but if you 'disrespect' the law, which is often defined as 'failure to obey a lawful order of a court, (such as refusing to give evidence when ordered) showing disrespect for the judge, (name calling etc) or disruption of the proceedings through poor behaviour', you can be found to be 'in contempt of the court's authority.'

While I agree with most of what you said, remember that flipping off pretty much anyone can be considered as 'incitement of hatred' or 'incitement of an immediate breach of the peace', both of which are most certainly considered as illegal. Now, the problem with this is that in a court of law, any accusation of incitement has to be considered to have enough evidence for it to be considered as 'legaly proven', but a policeman's evidence can go a very long way towards that.
In effect, if you flip off a policeman, you can easily find yourself facing legal action.
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Old 01-07-2013, 08:26 AM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garden of grey
Earning peoples respect through threat of legal punishment...

seems legit.

Assuming you're talking to me, I did say it would be much better if people respected the law for what it does. However as I'm sure you're away, there are different ways to respect an instruction.

I can respect someone's wishes to be left alone by going along with it (ie not bothering them) whilst not respecting their wishes in thinking they're stupid for wanting to be left alone.
People can respect the law in following it without respecting it in terms of giving it actual respect and holding it any positive regard. If they don't hold it in positive regard, then you say "respect the law or we will arrest you".

Threat of punishment doesn't bring respect in attitude, but it can bring respect in behaviour.

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Originally Posted by SlackerBabbath
'Disagreement' is defined differently to 'disrespectfull', for example, you can 'respectfully disagree' with someone. Disagreeing with the law and disrespecting it are therefore two different things. In a court of law, you can, to make a point, 'respectfully disagree' with the law and be perfectly safe from prosecution, but if you 'disrespect' the law, which is often defined as 'failure to obey a lawful order of a court, (such as refusing to give evidence when ordered) showing disrespect for the judge, (name calling etc) or disruption of the proceedings through poor behaviour', you can be found to be 'in contempt of the court's authority.'

While I agree with most of what you said, remember that flipping off pretty much anyone can be considered as 'incitement of hatred' or 'incitement of an immediate breach of the peace', both of which are most certainly considered as illegal. Now, the problem with this is that in a court of law, any accusation of incitement has to be considered to have enough evidence for it to be considered as 'legaly proven', but a policeman's evidence can go a very long way towards that.
In effect, if you flip off a policeman, you can easily find yourself facing legal action.

Of course respect and disagree are different things, but you can disagree with something in that you do not respect it at all. I can disagree with a racist, for example, whilst also not respecting their opinion, and I should be able to express my disrespect for such an opinion.
In the case of the law, you could both disagree with and disrespect a law or authority whilst still holding by their rules. That's what I mean by the idea that they should only be breaching the law if they actually do break the law. They can dislike the law all they want so long as they obey it, and if they don't disobey it then the law doesn't really have any right to stop them.

It sounds like you agree with what I've said above to grey, there is not respecting the law in attitude (expressed through swearing perhaps) and not respecting it in action (like you say, refusing to give evidence etc).

But yeah, I was mainly talking here about your point about it showing disrespect for the law, if you include swearing at police the same as swearing at any person it's a different issue.
I'd probably still disagree it need be illegal, but of course not for reasons for respect. Generally however, I feel unless someone does something more than swear, or pursues you over a long period etc then it's just not worthy of legal intervention.
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Old 01-07-2013, 09:41 AM   #127
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you really shouldn't be arrested for flipping off a cop, if it's just a one off thing, not a verbal tirade. it's not warranted but it does come with the job, just like how i have to take verbal diaorrhea from customers whether i like to or not

is it really illegal to flip someone off in the uk?
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Old 01-07-2013, 10:04 AM   #128
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you really shouldn't be arrested for flipping off a cop, if it's just a one off thing, not a verbal tirade. it's not warranted but it does come with the job, just like how i have to take verbal diaorrhea from customers whether i like to or not

is it really illegal to flip someone off in the uk?

Well, no.
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Old 01-08-2013, 03:57 AM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cianyx
you really shouldn't be arrested for flipping off a cop, if it's just a one off thing, not a verbal tirade.

That would suggest that something should be considered as a bit illegal but not completely. Either something is illegal or it isn't, the law is supposed to be black and white on what is legal and what is illegal. Of course, something can always be left up to a policeman's discretion on whether he arrests you or not but there first needs to be a law in place for the policeman to use his discretion over.
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is it really illegal to flip someone off in the uk?

It can be considered as such yes. As I said earlier, flipping off pretty much anyone can be considered as 'incitement of hatred' or 'incitement of an immediate breach of the peace', both of which are most certainly considered as illegal. It's really something that's up to a policeman's discretion as to whether he arrests someone for it or not.
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Old 01-08-2013, 04:03 AM   #130
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Only the British would make "being a bit of a dick" illegal.
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Old 01-08-2013, 07:30 AM   #131
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I've never liked the police, but I would only flip off a cop if s/he was going too far (making a big deal out of nothing, etc.)
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:31 AM   #132
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I've never liked the police, but I would only flip off a cop if s/he was going too far (making a big deal out of nothing, etc.)


Wouldn't that be the worst time to do it? If he's making a big deal out of nothing, I doubt he'll take it well...
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:59 AM   #133
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Haha aye, it might be the most justified time, but probably not the best...
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Old 01-08-2013, 09:12 AM   #134
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Wouldn't that be the worst time to do it? If he's making a big deal out of nothing, I doubt he'll take it well...


They have to be pulling somebody over and it is better if you are on the other side of the road, a freshly red light behind you can help too.
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Old 01-08-2013, 09:16 AM   #135
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Personally, I hide behind their houses and flip them off whilst they have dinner with their families.

Fight the power
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:53 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by MadClownDisease
Haha aye, it might be the most justified time, but probably not the best...


Good point, good point.



But I am pretty stupid.
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Old 01-13-2013, 10:29 PM   #137
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I do this every time I drive through a speed trap and I am doing the speed limit. I encourage everybody to do the same. They can't do anything to you because you are obeying the law.

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Old 01-13-2013, 10:33 PM   #138
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^ While I think flipping off cops is lame and infantile, I do hate speed traps.
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