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Old 01-22-2014, 12:58 PM   #21
flexiblemile
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I don't like rap, in fact I despise it, but rappers are musicians. Anyone who says otherwise is simply doing it out of malice or hatred of the genre.

I don't understand how this is even a question. Even the worst rapper who raps monotonously has to do it on time and in tune.

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muˇsiˇcian (my-zshn)
n.
One who composes, conducts, or performs music, especially instrumental music.
[Middle English musicien, from Old French, from Latin msica, music; see music.]
muˇsicianˇly adj.
muˇsicianˇship n.
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Old 01-25-2014, 02:32 PM   #22
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how can you despise rap?
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Old 01-25-2014, 03:25 PM   #23
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like this
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Old 01-25-2014, 04:16 PM   #24
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seriously, i know this is ot but what do you despise about it? im curious, since you're not just oblivious to rap but also have something against it.
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Old 01-25-2014, 04:53 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Ignore
seriously, i know this is ot but what do you despise about it? im curious, since you're not just oblivious to rap but also have something against it.


I can't speak for him, but I dislike rap and despise most of it because I've managed to find incredibly little of it that is actually about something. Even when looking at suggestions from people that insist their favorite indie rappers aren't just talking about drugs, women, money, etc., I end up just finding that same crap, or if not, some pseudo intelligent crap about the Illuminati and other nonsense. Secondly, I can't bring myself to appreciate the music itself. I've made attempts at electronic music, and I know that it's not just simply clicking buttons and letting the computer do the work on its own, but it seems like no matter how good somebody is on the production side of making the 'beats,' the creativity, and compositional skill, is just not there. Electronic elements of music only ever seem to be used in a manner I find creative or interesting when its just being infused into other styles (most often soundtrack music). There are exceptions to both of these complaints, of course, but I've found them to be incredibly rare.
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Old 01-25-2014, 05:46 PM   #26
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well my point in posting that wasn't to vent my dislike of the genre but mostly to set myself as being semi-objective on this argument. It seems that other posters are easy to make the argument that only people who like rap think that rappers are musicians. That's not my case.

I guess the term "despise" is a bit too visceral to describe my relation with the genre. "intense dislike" would be more appropriate, I think.

To answer your question, why do I intensely dislike rap?

I guess from a musicianship point of view, I don't like the monotonous vocals, the lopsided importance accorded to rhythm as opposed to melody (and it's not even good or complicated rhythm, it's mostly simple rhythms that are pounded into your head) and the focus on lyrics. I don't care about lyrics...

Also, I believe that the rap culture is an incredibly bad influence on youth. It promotes violence, class warfare, racism, drug use, shallowness and selfishness. It's misogynistic and promotes lawlessness.

Obviously these things aren't true of all rap artists but an overwhelming majority of the mainstream rap presents these traits. It's also true that other genres (like metal for example) can also be a source of bad influence on youth, but we're really not talking about the same proportion.

But really most of all, apart from all these things, when there's a rap song playing, it doesn't make me tap my foot or nod my head. It just doesn't bring me pleasure
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Old 01-25-2014, 06:05 PM   #27
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^I agree with all of that^

No matter how much I dislike rap, the people creating it are still musicians. Even if I think there's not much skill involved (at least not skill in the places that I desire it), they are still musicians.
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Old 01-25-2014, 10:34 PM   #28
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Actually i wasnt connecting this to the main topic at all, i just wanted to know why you chose to say that you despised rap music. Who you consider a musician is totally indifferent, i just felt that you maybe didn't give this great music a chance so i hope you can at least read my post.

Look, as a disclaimer, i agree that a lot of today's mainstream "rap music"(if you can even call it that anymore, pseudo-RnB might fit as a better description) is often, monotone, soulless, overproduced and down right annoying. Look at it this way, it's a bunch of sub genres that have developed out of real hip hop and rap music and have gone on to create it's own genre. Therefore it should also be treated as that, something in itself.
So everyhting you said about the overwhelming majority of this mainstream "Rap", we are actually talking about a far relative of real Hip Hop music.

Real hip-hop music is a beautiful thing that is not seclusive of any type of groups, may it be ethnical, geographical or anything else, just like all other music, is it universal.
All forms of Hip-hop were created by kids that have had shit around them for most of their lives, and so they tell their stories. A lot of it is about struggle, but mostly about compensation. Alot of the "bad influence on the youth" as you said is not something they started, its something they had to deal with every day, thats why they rap about it.

Songs that go **** bitches **** hoes, get grills, etc. with the same shitty beat for 3 minutes are songs that you cant compare to good music of the same genre. Thats like saying you "intensely dislike" Pop music because justin bieber is in the mainstream and sings baby, baby, baby for 3 minutes. If you actually listen to good rappers you'll notice that each of them are complex beings who reflect their ideas about all different aspects of life, and so their songs are about; love, music, upbringing, lifestyle, thoughts, storys. etc.

I know you dont care about lyrics, and neither did my 11 year old german self, i couldnt even understand 80% of the shit they were talking about, but one thing drew me to it a lot, and that was the music. Man oh man, Hip Hop music has so tight grooves that dont exsist anywhere else, just like every genre of music. Hip Hop music is a direct product of Jazz, funk, Disco and pop. Remember that Hip hop came up in the late 70s and early 80s. Young people got interested in synths, drum machines and samplers. So instead of learning Guitar, trombone or whatever alot of kids stuck with samplers, synths and drum machines, creating something entirely new and original. And hip-hop of course developed all the time, so kids picked up "real" instruments again as well as electronics, to contribute even more as opposed to being restricted by samples. I could give you an infinitve amount of examples of beautiful hip-hop music, and if you asked me to, i would gladly recommend you some them. And if you dont like it then, i couldnt care less, but at least you gave it a listen and your attention for 5 minutes, putting aside all judgement about influence on society, other shitty artists of the same genre or musicianship.

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Old 01-26-2014, 12:53 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignore
Actually i wasnt connecting this to the main topic at all, i just wanted to know why you chose to say that you despised rap music. Who you consider a musician is totally indifferent, i just felt that you maybe didn't give this great music a chance so i hope you can at least read my post.

Look, as a disclaimer, i agree that a lot of today's mainstream "rap music"(if you can even call it that anymore, pseudo-RnB might fit as a better description) is often, monotone, soulless, overproduced and down right annoying. Look at it this way, it's a bunch of sub genres that have developed out of real hip hop and rap music and have gone on to create it's own genre. Therefore it should also be treated as that, something in itself.
So everyhting you said about the overwhelming majority of this mainstream "Rap", we are actually talking about a far relative of real Hip Hop music.

Real hip-hop music is a beautiful thing that is not seclusive of any type of groups, may it be ethnical, geographical or anything else, just like all other music, is it universal.
All forms of Hip-hop were created by kids that have had shit around them for most of their lives, and so they tell their stories. A lot of it is about struggle, but mostly about compensation. Alot of the "bad influence on the youth" as you said is not something they started, its something they had to deal with every day, thats why they rap about it.

Songs that go **** bitches **** hoes, get grills, etc. with the same shitty beat for 3 minutes are songs that you cant compare to good music of the same genre. Thats like saying you "intensely dislike" Pop music because justin bieber is in the mainstream and sings baby, baby, baby for 3 minutes. If you actually listen to good rappers you'll notice that each of them are complex beings who reflect their ideas about all different aspects of life, and so their songs are about; love, music, upbringing, lifestyle, thoughts, storys. etc.

I know you dont care about lyrics, and neither did my 11 year old german self, i couldnt even understand 80% of the shit they were talking about, but one thing drew me to it a lot, and that was the music. Man oh man, Hip Hop music has so tight grooves that dont exsist anywhere else, just like every genre of music. Hip Hop music is a direct product of Jazz, funk, Disco and pop. Remember that Hip hop came up in the late 70s and early 80s. Young people got interested in synths, drum machines and samplers. So instead of learning Guitar, trombone or whatever alot of kids stuck with samplers, synths and drum machines, creating something entirely new and original. And hip-hop of course developed all the time, so kids picked up "real" instruments again as well as electronics, to contribute even more as opposed to being restricted by samples. I could give you an infinitve amount of examples of beautiful hip-hop music, and if you asked me to, i would gladly recommend you some them. And if you dont like it then, i couldnt care less, but at least you gave it a listen and your attention for 5 minutes, putting aside all judgement about influence on society, other shitty artists of the same genre or musicianship.

I agree 100%.

I think the argument that rap music is harmful is as bad as metal music is harmful. Just because you like a song that talks about drugs doesn't mean you actually like drugs. I mean, I find Steel Panther's music really entertaining - they only sing about sex, drugs and rock'n'roll. It's entertainment. Many times metal music is about death but how many people kill somebody because they listen to metal music that talks about death? You may also enjoy watching movies where the "hero" of the movie kills hundreds of people. But that doesn't make you want to kill people.

I also agree that rap music has great grooves. It's not just the lyrics. If people only listened to lyrics, why would they want to listen to music? I mean, there are poems for that. Rap is poems with rhythm. And writing lyrics with a good flow is a skill. To me it doesn't matter that much what the lyrics are about. What matters is how they are written. Of course the message matters too but sometimes you don't have a really important message to say. You could just write a song about how good you feel today but still the lyrics could be genius. It's not all about the message, it's about how you tell about the message. Otherwise I could write the best rap song by just stating facts.

Two songs can have exactly the same message but the other of them may just have better lyrics. It's not that much about the "what", it's more about the "how". You could write good and bad lyrics about whatever subject.

Rap singing can sound good if it's used the right way. It's similar to a guitar solo - it doesn't fit everywhere but in the right place it can sound really good.
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Last edited by MaggaraMarine : 01-26-2014 at 12:55 PM.
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Old 01-26-2014, 02:09 PM   #30
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Plus, rap is bouncy and make ya go hard. YEEEEUH BOI!
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Old 02-13-2014, 10:09 PM   #31
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This is the site that links to the videos I've seen on the rapper in question (sans the interviews sadly)
http://sessions.guitarcenter.com/talib-kweli
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Old 02-14-2014, 11:27 AM   #32
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You may also enjoy watching movies where the "hero" of the movie kills hundreds of people. But that doesn't make you want to kill people..


Citation needed. Studies show that watching a movie with fast cars, or 30mins playing a racing game on xbox and then driving for real makes you increase your average speed by 10-20kph.
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Old 02-14-2014, 11:35 AM   #33
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Citation needed. Studies show that watching a movie with fast cars, or 30mins playing a racing game on xbox and then driving for real makes you increase your average speed by 10-20kph.


Citation needed.
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Old 02-14-2014, 01:43 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by flexiblemile

Also, I believe that the rap culture is an incredibly bad influence on youth. It promotes violence, class warfare, racism, drug use, shallowness and selfishness. It's misogynistic and promotes lawlessness.



If you're talking about gangsta rap (by which I mean the real gangsta stuff from the 90s), that was a reflection of the culture these men were growing up in. They were singing about violence because they saw it in their neighbourhoods every day growing up. The really self-aware, great rappers (like Tupac) were able to connect that violence to its causes and effects. Causes: the ugly history of slavery, segregation and institutional racism of the United States, which ghettoized black people and alienated them from any hopes of economic success. The effect: the fetishization of wealth, even if obtained illegally.
I think a lot of those early gangsta rap albums had a really important message that a lot of people missed because omg black people are scary. Looking at the surface and claiming there was nothing but "shallowness and selfishness" is actually a bit racist, because it implies that the people making this music, who are by and large black, lack the intelligence and self-awareness to see WHY they're saying what they're saying.
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Old 02-14-2014, 04:06 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by innovine
Citation needed. Studies show that watching a movie with fast cars, or 30mins playing a racing game on xbox and then driving for real makes you increase your average speed by 10-20kph.

Have you watched movies where the "hero" of the movie kills people? (I bet you have.) Did it make you want to kill people? (I doubt it did.)

People need to separate entertainment from real life. They are different things. People watch horror movies for entertainment, not because they really like what happens in the movie. Horror is entertainment because people know it doesn't happen in real life, it happens in a movie. Same with songs. Lyrics are like a book or a movie. I bet you have watched some movies where horrible things happen but have still liked the movie a lot. This doesn't mean you want horrible things to happen.

Just use common sense. I have heard lots of songs about whatever things and I haven't started using drugs or killing people or anything. I find it ridiculous when people try to blame music/lyrics. This isn't 70s any more. And rap haters are doing the same as metal/rock hating parents did in the 70s/80s. You don't need to like the music but saying that rap is "evil" is ridiculous. And I don't really like rap either.
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Old 02-14-2014, 11:28 PM   #36
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Guys, we're getting wag off topic in an argument here. Don't get my thread closed cos I may have an update later or something (idk). Anyway my question has been answered twice (my genre. calls for full compositions but I'll need to figure out the best method for myself)


^^

Have some respect for the TS.

If you want to discuss the merits of rap or musicianship or whatever else. create a new thread for the discussion.

What' I'm saying is - No more off topic posts please.
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Old 03-24-2014, 07:53 PM   #37
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Thanks 20Tigers.

About that possible update: I haven't played guitar in over a month now (moved out to attend Job Corps and had to leave the axe behind) and it left me some serious time to make new musical ideas in my head. I realized that I am pretty damn good at writing a theme and music to fit it but I suck at lyrics now. I'll find a songwriter to put words to the things I'm feeling for all my future work :3
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Old 03-26-2014, 06:52 AM   #38
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I'm gonna go read the wig thread again.
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