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Old 11-02-2012, 09:06 AM   #1
zefs
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Exclamation ESP ltd M-1000 rattling sound on high E.

So few months ago I made this topic but I still haven't figured out what is wrong with my ESP, and I have tried everything.

This issue was confirmed by wedy1414 last month when he posted on my profile:
Quote:
Hey man, I noticed you made a thread back in April about a bad tone coming from your High E string at the 12 fret to the 16th fret. I have an ESP Eclipse II and I have this same issue, In fact I've had this problem for about 2 years now and Im finally absolutely sick of it. Did you ever find out what the problem was?


To sum up, when I hit the 12th fret(and the frets around it - 10th to 15th) there is a rattling noise coming out. This annoying sound doesn't get noticed as much when using the neck pickup.

For example,
15th fret bridge pickup = rattling/vibrating note
15th fret neck pickup = perfect sounding note

12th fret bridge pickup = rattling/vibrating note
12th fret neck pickup = less noticable rattling/vibrating note

One thing to note is that this does not happen when playing unplugged which makes me think it's an electronic issue, but why would it happen only on this particular neck area and string?

If anyone could help solving this issue it would be great.
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Last edited by zefs : 11-02-2012 at 02:54 PM.
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Old 11-02-2012, 04:54 PM   #2
swatspeedman
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Perhaps the locking nut at the top of the fretboard is loose from the neck and is making a rattling sound?
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Old 11-02-2012, 05:53 PM   #3
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I have a LTD that was making a noise similar to that, it was the string tree on the headstock. Tightened the screws a bit and it was gone.
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Old 11-02-2012, 06:30 PM   #4
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Sounds like your truss rod is vibrating.
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Old 11-03-2012, 07:58 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swatspeedman
Perhaps the locking nut at the top of the fretboard is loose from the neck and is making a rattling sound?

The locking nut is very tight and so are the screws.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J_W
I have a LTD that was making a noise similar to that, it was the string tree on the headstock. Tightened the screws a bit and it was gone.

With tree you mean the thing with the two screws? I checked this also, no go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Air_Vengeance
Sounds like your truss rod is vibrating.

I am afraid this might be it, but why doesn't this happen when unplugged/on zero volume?
Also how can this have happened after only a year or so and without me damaging the trus rood. These guitars are supposed to be well built, it's a shame because it's a 1000 guitar which for me is quite high and I really want to fix this issue.
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Last edited by zefs : 11-03-2012 at 08:17 AM.
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Old 11-03-2012, 10:37 AM   #6
Air_Vengeance
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zefs
The locking nut is very tight and so are the screws.


With tree you mean the thing with the two screws? I checked this also, no go.


I am afraid this might be it, but why doesn't this happen when unplugged/on zero volume?
Also how can this have happened after only a year or so and without me damaging the trus rood. These guitars are supposed to be well built, it's a shame because it's a 1000 guitar which for me is quite high and I really want to fix this issue.


Key frequencies traveling through the air that make it vibrate. Has nothing to do with quality and more to do with science. More like your neck is giving feedback. The technical term is "Truss rod resonance". You are resonating the just right frequency to get it to vibrate. The amp is just amplifying the correct frequency that does it. That is why it only does it on certain notes in different places on the neck.

Fixing the issue? Well,try loosening and tightening the truss rod. 1/4 turn loose then 1/4 tight to get it back into position. If that doesn't work you'll have to loosen or tighten it a small amount but that might leave your relief out of whack. Hell might be your truss rod is completely loose and needs to be tightened a little,1/8 turn tight just might fix it. Without laying my hands on it to be 100% sure what the problem is it is hard to give advice how to fix this issue. I've heard of guys dropping tooth picks down into the truss rod chamber just to get the rod to lean into a different position. Even removing the truss rod and slipping a tiny slit of paper the length of the rod can fix it. I would literally lay me ear on the guitar to hear it. Press your ear against the head stock or upper horn area to hear your guitar vibrate.

This is not a uncommon issue but a very rare one. I'm sure you can imagine what it takes to get the frequency just right to do it. If you google truss rod rattle you will get a ton of people with the exact same frustration as you. Even more people responding that have no clue what truss rod resonance even is and giving bad advice how to fix it.

What I would do as a 25+ plus year player and tech:

If it were me and it is the truss rod resonating And not a loose truss rod AND the small neck adjustments do not fix it, I would sell the guitar. I know it sucks to hear this.

Sorry about the run on sentence it just made more sense that way.

I just wish I could lay my hands on the guitar.
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Last edited by Air_Vengeance : 11-03-2012 at 10:38 AM.
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Old 11-03-2012, 11:20 AM   #7
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Thank you for willing to help.

How do you justify the following?

1) With new strings this does not happen(although it starts again after couple of days since my strings always wear out quickly so this is not a solution)
2) Again, on neck pickup if I hit the 15th fret on high E, it sounds as it should. Switching to bridge gives the described issue. Does it have to do with what you described? so the frequency that makes it vibrate is not reached when using the neck pickup on that fret?

I have already tried truss rod adjustments:
When I got the guitar it had a little back bow. Then I adjusted it to a straight neck, and now it has a little relief, since I was trying to eliminate the fret buzz I was getting.

My intention was to sell the guitar and get the fixed bridge version but I don't want the buyer to face the same issues I am experiencing and that's what's holding me back. Also I don't want this issue to appear on the new guitar as well, it basically disables you from playing on these frets.
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Last edited by zefs : 11-03-2012 at 11:23 AM.
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Old 11-03-2012, 12:39 PM   #8
Air_Vengeance
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zefs
Thank you for willing to help.

How do you justify the following?

1) With new strings this does not happen(although it starts again after couple of days since my strings always wear out quickly so this is not a solution)
2) Again, on neck pickup if I hit the 15th fret on high E, it sounds as it should. Switching to bridge gives the described issue. Does it have to do with what you described? so the frequency that makes it vibrate is not reached when using the neck pickup on that fret?

I have already tried truss rod adjustments:
When I got the guitar it had a little back bow. Then I adjusted it to a straight neck, and now it has a little relief, since I was trying to eliminate the fret buzz I was getting.

My intention was to sell the guitar and get the fixed bridge version but I don't want the buyer to face the same issues I am experiencing and that's what's holding me back. Also I don't want this issue to appear on the new guitar as well, it basically disables you from playing on these frets.


It really does sound like it but like I said without being able to lay my hands on the guitar I can't say 100% sure.

It is very rare for this to happen. A lot of different factors go into why it resonates. You could buy another 10,000 LTD's or any other guitar and never see this again, that's how rare it is.

If you truly want to fix this you could try removing the truss rod nut and slipping a washer on then re-tightening. Other fixes are way more intrusive like removing a inlay and adding mass to the rod then having to repair the inlay. If the truss rod comes out you could add mass by covering the rod in a thin layer of elmer's/white glue,let it dry,and re-insert it. To me it's just way to much work. In almost every instance I have come across this every advice has been to sell the guitar. I read of a banjo player that removed a inlay then drilled a whole to get access to the truss rod then squirted in elmers/white glue. Fixed the problem but he had to redo his inlay. Huge pain in the ass but it was a very expensive and rare banjo.

I DON'T recommend you do any of that unless you are a trained luither.

The Jackson I had that did this I sold within a week and never looked back. It was just not worth the work.

Trade it in a music store for the one you really want. The person that buys it next might tune differently,use different gauge strings,and might not have the issue.
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Old 11-03-2012, 12:46 PM   #9
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I will try the truss rod washer and maybe glue and see what happens for now.
Will keep you posted. How can I remove the truss rod nut? the thing we use the alen key to tighten/loese the truss rod.
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Last edited by zefs : 11-03-2012 at 12:48 PM.
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Old 11-03-2012, 12:49 PM   #10
Air_Vengeance
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zefs
I will try the truss rod washer and maybe glue and see what happens for now.
Will keep you posted. How can I remove the truss rod nut? the thing we use the alen key to tighten/loese the truss rod.


Yah the nut should just screw off. Slip a small washer on and retighten. Remember not to go as tight as it once was because adding the washer will make it stiffer.

I went through and did some google searching and came up with nothing other than what I already know and a fix Fender uses. The fix still involves removing a inlay and drilling.

I'm sorry dude.

Sell it
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Last edited by Air_Vengeance : 11-03-2012 at 12:53 PM.
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Old 11-03-2012, 01:02 PM   #11
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Yeah but how do you unscrew the truss rod nut? just like how you add neck relief? I am missing something here :p
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Old 11-03-2012, 01:09 PM   #12
Air_Vengeance
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zefs
Yeah but how do you unscrew the truss rod nut? just like how you add neck relief? I am missing something here :p


yup,lefty loosy.
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Old 11-03-2012, 01:37 PM   #13
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So I've added bunch of relief but it doesn't seem to come off. Should I keep trying or I will damage the neck?
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Old 11-03-2012, 03:47 PM   #14
Air_Vengeance
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zefs
So I've added bunch of relief but it doesn't seem to come off. Should I keep trying or I will damage the neck?



It should come off.

No way to damage the neck or truss rod.

If it isn't doing what it should be doing put it back and stop messin with it.
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Old 11-09-2012, 07:29 PM   #15
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My Epiphone Les Paul and my ESP Eclipse both have this same problem. I'm probably going to take it to a tech eventually. Although they are just gonna look at me like I'm ******ed and have no idea what is wrong with my guitar.
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Old 11-09-2012, 07:30 PM   #16
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Personally, I think it is related to fret wear not "truss rod resonance". I can't believe how much grief this has caused me. I don't play the guitar as much as I used to because I hate this tone so badly.

Last edited by wedy1414 : 11-09-2012 at 07:38 PM.
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