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Old 10-08-2012, 08:10 AM   #21
mrkeka
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^^ A singing lesson might help. Although he probably can't hold a pitch due to the untrained ear, it is much easier to do it if you know how to breathe properly and use your diaphragm.
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Old 10-09-2012, 11:22 PM   #22
Outside Octaves
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Probably, no definitely all true I would guess, but my problem in holding a pitch is more due to the production of pitch... which my voice is just useless at. Ever hear someone who doesn't know how to sing try to sing? All off key and up and down in the same space ... eww, and yea that's me... You see it in comedies all the time, and well...

But I'll give it a crack. My own voice just ... it is not something I like to hear lol.
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Old 10-09-2012, 11:37 PM   #23
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nobody likes their voice. nobody's telling you to have a perfect timbre or sing across 5 octaves - just be able to reproduce a pitch accurately and cleanly. everybody can sing, it's a learned skill. your personal tone is another thing, but everybody can at least carry a tune.
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Old 10-11-2012, 04:46 AM   #24
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I think that first you've got to develop your own understanding of what a solo is.

If a lead guitarist is playing one note at a time he can either go up, down, or stay the same on the next note. If he doesn't think ahead on what the song is doing this will just sound random or directionless.

He's got to aim for certain peaks or goals in line with the dynamics of the song. It's at these moments that the solo will sound great, so he's got to know which note will be effective at that moment. It can't just be any note from the scale; some scale notes won't sound great against the backing chord. Safest bet would be a chord tone but sometimes an outside-the-chord tone works great too.

In between these moments of greatness the note choice is less crucial. The importance of dynamics and rhythm remain, however. So you're thinking am I heading for a crescendo? Do I speed up? Do I repeat a lick over and over? Do I just play up or down a scale pattern until the next crucial note of the solo? Do I use chromatic passing notes? Get bluesy? Trippy section? Play in octaves? Shift a pattern up or down one position of the circle of fifths? Mess around with a single note bend? Play some low notes with palm muting? Go for legato with hammer ons and pull offs?

Instead of these tricks you might just come up with a melody, a tune that fits over the progression or riff.

With practice you can do all these things by ear. With more practice you can do them better.

My main point is that the solo should be constructed holistically with a knowledge of where it's going to go and when it's going to go there.
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Old 10-11-2012, 11:14 AM   #25
HotspurJr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outside Octaves
Probably, no definitely all true I would guess, but my problem in holding a pitch is more due to the production of pitch... which my voice is just useless at. Ever hear someone who doesn't know how to sing try to sing? All off key and up and down in the same space ... eww, and yea that's me... You see it in comedies all the time, and well...


Yes. I have seen it all the time.

And some of it is technique. There are technical things you can do which will improve your ability to hold a pitch.

But that's about minor improvements, really nailing each pitch precisely. You're at a point where the problem is almost certainly that your brain doesn't actually have a good understanding of what each pitch is relative to each other.

So when you open your mouth to sing, your brain is basically guessing. And then it hears the sound you make and knows that it's not right, but (again) because it doesn't have a well-defined idea of what the pitch is supposed to be is basically says, "Okay, let's try something else!" and you shift pitch. But, of course, sometimes that guess is just wrong, so your brain (and all of this is happening subconsciously) tries again.

Meanwhile, your voice is jumping up and down and sounding like crap.

Ear training is really mind training - really teaching your brain how to think in pitches. When you try to sing, then, your brain will know exactly what sound to make and viola, as if by magic it'll come out.
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Old 10-12-2012, 04:18 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by HotspurJr
Just want to repeat:

Until you can HEAR a lead, you can't play a lead. And if you can't transcribe a lead then you can't really play it.

So yes, get the functional ear trainer from miles.be. I found it to be much more productive than interval recognition. And transcribe simple melodies like the ones suggested. The thing that makes them simple is that they're songs you know, so any melody you know should work.

The reason your voice can't hold a pitch is because your ear is untrained. Your mind doesn't really know what pitches are. This makes transcription incredibly difficult but interval exercises and the functional ear trainer will help.

I don't think you particularly need to take a vocal lesson for this, but you should start singing scales. Play the major scale. Sing it. Check your pitch at the end. Did you get it right? Sing along with you instrument and then just play the first and last pitch. That sort of thing.

These are essential skills - they are not optional if you want to be a decent musician.

+1

Keep in mind though, pitch is just one of the elements of music. What makes a solo interesting is creating tension and then resolving it, dynamic build up, keeping it coherent with the feeling of the song,etc... Just staying in key won't mean anything by itself.

It's kind of like telling a story, your phrases should have a "meaning" and work together to convey a message. The best way to start to develop these skills is what HotspurJr said, work on your relative pitch.

This won't come overnight. To me this is what I define by talent, anyone can memorize shapes and know what would be the "correct" notes in the music, making art out of that is the difficult part.
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Old 10-13-2012, 05:17 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Guitarra_acores
To me this is what I define by talent, anyone can memorize shapes and know what would be the "correct" notes in the music, making art out of that is the difficult part.


Yeah, it's analogous to the difference between knowing all the rules of grammar and being able to tell an engaging story.
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Old 10-14-2012, 04:30 AM   #28
Outside Octaves
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Ok, I'll try to learn to sing the C major scale from 3rd fret A string up to the next C up on the B string 2nd fret... I find I can almost hold those pitches when I play the appropriate note on the guitar... thing is, the note fades on the guitar, and .... it's like a punch to the gut at how bad I sound, even if it is ok-ish in terms of being relatively close enough for now to what note is being produced from the guitar. The voice is cracky, wavering almost into vibrato, ugh! It is an affront to my sense of hearing to the point of almost making me puke at times. But, at least I'm close enough for now, and will continue over the next week to see if there's any improvement or memorization. I bet though, there won't be.
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