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Old 11-02-2012, 08:36 PM   #1
ibanez1997
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Question Avid Eleven Rack vs Line 6 Pod HD vs other

Hi,
I currently own a Fender Mustang I amp, and while I can get some good tones out of it with the Fender FUSE software, I plugged into a Peavey 6505+ 112 at Guitar Center a few weeks ago, and there was a depth to it I just could not get out of the Mustang. The best way I can describe it is the Mustang was 2-dimensional, kind of flat, and the Peavey was 3D.

I may have a chance to upgrade soon, and I'd prefer to get a digital unit over an amp, because:
1)I'm worried a 60-watt tube combo will be too loud; I'm just in the bedroom for now.
2)It would be easier to record a digital processor.

So, the ideal choice would be a Fractal Audio Axe FX, from what I've heard, but the budget is considerably less (preferably $800, $1000 if I push it) and I've narrowed my search to the Avid Eleven Rack and the Line 6 Pod HD. From what I've heard on YouTube, both can model the high-gain amps (Mesa/Boogie, Engl etc. which are important because I play mostly 80s-style metal) well, but I don't think that's a fair indication of what it will sound like.

So my question is: will one or both of these units give me the "3D" in sound that I'm looking for? If both can, which is better for my needs? If neither can, is there something in my price range which will? I will try them out as soon as I can, but it may be a while.

Thanks!
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Old 11-02-2012, 08:40 PM   #2
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I was told the 11R has improved amps sims while the Pod HD has more effects to play around with. 11R might be great for you. I believe it also comes with a version of Pro Tools.

If you're still interested in a tube amp, that's a different matter. We don't know what kind of sounds you're going for.
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Old 11-02-2012, 08:53 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemurflames
I was told the 11R has improved amps sims while the Pod HD has more effects to play around with. 11R might be great for you. I believe it also comes with a version of Pro Tools.

If you're still interested in a tube amp, that's a different matter. We don't know what kind of sounds you're going for.


Thanks for the advice! The thing is, I'm not sure if I do want a tube amp. I just like the depth of tone I can get out of one. If the 11R, Pod HD or another unit in that range can get that, that would be perfect! Otherwise, I could go for the 6505+.

Also, I've been hearing good things about the AMT Electronics Legend series. How would those stack up against a tube amp?

Thanks for the help!
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Old 11-02-2012, 09:50 PM   #4
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I have an eleven rack and I love it. It sounds extremely organic. What a lot of people don't realize is these modelers are MIC'D amps, so they will not sound like an amp in the room! They DO sound like recorded tube amps though. I think the eleven rack is leaps and bounds better than the pod hd. You do have to tweak Both units, as most presets on both are rather disappointing.

Another route is guitar rig 5. I thought it sounded much better than the pod hd , but not as good as the eleven rack.

Just my opinions.
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Old 11-02-2012, 09:58 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad11491
I have an eleven rack and I love it. It sounds extremely organic. What a lot of people don't realize is these modelers are MIC'D amps, so they will not sound like an amp in the room! They DO sound like recorded tube amps though. I think the eleven rack is leaps and bounds better than the pod hd. You do have to tweak Both units, as most presets on both are rather disappointing.

Another route is guitar rig 5. I thought it sounded much better than the pod hd , but not as good as the eleven rack.

Just my opinions.


Great to know, thank you! So, it wouldn't sound like a tube amp if played through a PA. If you ran it through the power amp of a tube amp, or something like the Tech 21 Power Engine (essentially a power amp and speaker) would it sound like a tube amp?

Thanks!

EDIT: For example, could you disable cab and mic sims and run it into the power section of a tube amp?
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Originally Posted by Variant (sevenstring.org)
Next installation, wire a BKP into a car horn circuit and djonk at people in traffic!




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Last edited by ibanez1997 : 11-02-2012 at 10:02 PM.
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Old 11-02-2012, 11:15 PM   #6
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Yes, you can disable the cab and mic sims and get great results. It sounds very "tubey" I haven't experienced the HD this way, so I can't compare.

It would sound like any mic'd amp through a pa. The eleven rack would need a midi floorboard to control it with, and there IS about a second delay between patch changes for the new patch's sound to take effect. Look up singtall on soundcloud for a very honest example of what an eleven rack sounds like. I was very unhappy with mine for about a week, and then I found his patches and saw how he programmed them in, and now I'm making my own that sound incredible to my ears.

This all could apply to the pods too, I just haven't had as much experience with them to honestly compare, though I did think the 11r sounded better. I mainly play 80's hair metal and van halen and the like, so think of those tones as reference for what I shoot for in my amps/modelers and such.
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Old 11-02-2012, 11:37 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad11491
Yes, you can disable the cab and mic sims and get great results. It sounds very "tubey" I haven't experienced the HD this way, so I can't compare.

It would sound like any mic'd amp through a pa. The eleven rack would need a midi floorboard to control it with, and there IS about a second delay between patch changes for the new patch's sound to take effect. Look up singtall on soundcloud for a very honest example of what an eleven rack sounds like. I was very unhappy with mine for about a week, and then I found his patches and saw how he programmed them in, and now I'm making my own that sound incredible to my ears.

This all could apply to the pods too, I just haven't had as much experience with them to honestly compare, though I did think the 11r sounded better. I mainly play 80's hair metal and van halen and the like, so think of those tones as reference for what I shoot for in my amps/modelers and such.


Well, I'm still going to try both, but I'm very tempted by the Eleven Rack now. Thank you so much!
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Originally Posted by Variant (sevenstring.org)
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Old 11-02-2012, 11:56 PM   #8
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It's worth mentioning that the Tech 21 PowerEngine is solid state - or at least I think it is.

Atomic has a 50W tube-powered speaker cabinet. It's about $800 though. They also have a 50W mono power amp you can combine with any guitar cab you choose. These might get you close to that tube sound when using one of these digital preamps.

There are also cheaper power amps out there, but I don't know enough about them to throw any names down.

http://www.atomicamps.com/products.htm
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Old 11-03-2012, 01:56 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemurflames
It's worth mentioning that the Tech 21 PowerEngine is solid state - or at least I think it is.

Atomic has a 50W tube-powered speaker cabinet. It's about $800 though. They also have a 50W mono power amp you can combine with any guitar cab you choose. These might get you close to that tube sound when using one of these digital preamps.

There are also cheaper power amps out there, but I don't know enough about them to throw any names down.

http://www.atomicamps.com/products.htm


Hmm, didn't know that the Power Engine was SS - then again, I haven't done a whole lot of research on power amps yet.

I've heard about the Atomic one, but that is pretty expensive! It's mostly for recording though, so I could just pick up the 11R/Pod HD and save for a power amp if I need it (even if I play live, I could just go straight to the PA).

Is there a reasonably priced foot controller that will work with the 11R?

Thanks!
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Originally Posted by Variant (sevenstring.org)
Next installation, wire a BKP into a car horn circuit and djonk at people in traffic!




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Old 11-03-2012, 09:35 AM   #10
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Most people on the forums use the behringer fcb 1010. It's about $150

You should try elevenrackpresets forums as they are a really helpful bunch, and the line6 community is too.
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Old 11-03-2012, 06:48 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad11491
Most people on the forums use the behringer fcb 1010. It's about $150

You should try elevenrackpresets forums as they are a really helpful bunch, and the line6 community is too.


Sounds good!

I thought I'd narrowed it down, but now I've been hearing good things about the Digitech GSP1101 as well... Too many options! I'm confused.

I'm most concerned about sound quality, not versatility or number of options. How does the amp modeling on the GSP1101 stack up against the Eleven Rack and the Pod HD?

Again, thank you for all the help!
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Originally Posted by Variant (sevenstring.org)
Next installation, wire a BKP into a car horn circuit and djonk at people in traffic!




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Old 11-03-2012, 08:49 PM   #12
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The Eleven Rack is a great little thing. Now I know the Pod does metal well, has an integrated pedal board, more effects, and you can have parallel rigs... but the Eleven is generally considered to be a step up in realism and model quality. Heaps of settings to play around with, and the cabs emulate speaker breakup, and there's the impedance matching feature on the input, so it cleans up nicely with reduced guitar volume and brings out picking dynamics.

The Eleven rack will need a separate pedal board... Behringed FCB 1010 and an 11Prom chip usually work well, and if you're interested in recording... it's a fully-fledged Pro-Tools recording interface and does re-amping from DI signals. Really cool little device for demoing guitars easily.

Both the Pod an 11 can be used as pre-amps into a venue's PA or your own FRFR powered speaker.

On the Digitech... I haven't hard it produce results as good, but you can always ask around on the DSP thread here since some people have used those.

If you want high gain 80s metal the eleven has Plexis, a JCM 800, Mesa Mk2, a Soldano Slo-100, a Dual Rec, and if you add the expansion (which is worth it), a Bogner Ecstasy, a modded JCM 800 and the DC Modern SOD, which is supposedly similar to a 5150.

If you want to see it in action:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrW_...&feature=relmfu
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Old 11-03-2012, 09:46 PM   #13
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you can get AxeFx Ultras and Standards for $1000..... just putting that out there.....

the 11R is good though i must admit, and it works as an interface too so you don't have to worry about that when recording with it. The POD HD is good, but the 11R and the AxeFx are just better. One of those will be your best option.
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Old 11-03-2012, 10:25 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shredftw
you can get AxeFx Ultras and Standards for $1000..... just putting that out there.....

the 11R is good though i must admit, and it works as an interface too so you don't have to worry about that when recording with it. The POD HD is good, but the 11R and the AxeFx are just better. One of those will be your best option.


AxeFx for $1000? Wow.

I just ran a search though, nothing used on Guitar Center or my local Craigslist, and the lowest I can find for and AxeFx Standard on eBay is $1300.

Where did you find it for $1000?
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Originally Posted by Variant (sevenstring.org)
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Old 11-04-2012, 02:54 PM   #15
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Look on the gear page. They go for that somewhat regularly. I got my eleven rack for 425 including pro tools and the expansion pack, and pod HD500's go for about 325-350 quite often.
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Old 11-04-2012, 03:01 PM   #16
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you can get AxeFx Ultras and Standards for $1000..... just putting that out there.....

+1, exactly what I was gonna come into this thread and say

Rig Talk had one last week or the week before.
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Old 11-04-2012, 04:24 PM   #17
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+1, exactly what I was gonna come into this thread and say

Rig Talk had one last week or the week before.


So would it be easier to find one cheap on the forums than on eBay or Craigslist?
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Originally Posted by Variant (sevenstring.org)
Next installation, wire a BKP into a car horn circuit and djonk at people in traffic!




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Old 11-05-2012, 01:49 AM   #18
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Thumbs up

Well, I've got a gig this coming weekend and I need something to handle our setlist which is everything from Hendrix to Rush to Maiden, and I figure I might go with the Pod just for the fact that it's a floorboard, and it will be far easier to switch presets, as well as cheaper. I've heard good tones out of it, and as I understand from all the replies here, it will get the '3D' sound I keep talking about right? If it won't, I don't see it as a significant improvement over the Mustang...

Anyway, will head over to GC to try the HD500 out. Thank you guys for all the help, you rock!


Ah, how I love UG smileys

Thanks everyone!
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Originally Posted by Variant (sevenstring.org)
Next installation, wire a BKP into a car horn circuit and djonk at people in traffic!




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Old 11-05-2012, 05:13 AM   #19
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3D is a weird way of describing sounds out of a modeller or amp... which usually sits as a in a single point in the room or mix. 3D would probably be more of a description given to a mix as a whole. Not really sure what that means in terms of a tone.

It will be a significant improvement over the Mustang, and Animals as Leaders' first album was done on the older Pod X3 or XT or something, and the HDs are a step up.

If you want a comparison:

The patches are EQd differently between the 2 units.

And clean tone:

Last edited by baumaxx1 : 11-05-2012 at 05:17 AM.
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Old 11-05-2012, 06:00 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baumaxx1
3D is a weird way of describing sounds out of a modeller or amp... which usually sits as a in a single point in the room or mix. 3D would probably be more of a description given to a mix as a whole. Not really sure what that means in terms of a tone.

It will be a significant improvement over the Mustang, and Animals as Leaders' first album was done on the older Pod X3 or XT or something, and the HDs are a step up.

If you want a comparison:

The patches are EQd differently between the 2 units.

And clean tone:


Hmm, I'll have to check out the tone on those albums. I'm headed over to GC to try the HD500 today, so we'll see how it goes.

And Ola Englund has the best amp demos on the planet, and he's a great player too I've seen that video, and maybe it's strange, but I almost preferred the Line 6 on that maybe it's just the EQ'ing. Like you said, they were dialed in differently.
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