Go Back   UG Community @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com > Music > Musician Talk
User Name  
Password
Search:

Reply
Old 11-24-2012, 04:14 AM   #21
salempc
Registered User
 
salempc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by parkt921k
just to give a point of reference of what I'm talking about, this message is from a month and a half ago, regarding me playing two of our songs at a tiny bar in front of 8 people:



that's what I'm dealing with. I gather this is all bullsh*t

and btw when I did play there, I announced his name to the 8 people who couldn't care less


Ahh... Now I get your buddy...

Dont make a big deal out of it, he just got butthurt because you didn't inform him you were playing TCA songs because he feels he did his job too and would want some credit for it. If you don't even tell him you're playing, how could he be sure he gets the credit he does deserve, even if you did mention him. You should have told him.

He doesn't look like he doesn't want you to play them, just that it wouldn't hurt to let him know you are, so he feels like people know he is being credited for his work, which although legally would give you a great leverage, formally it really was a 50/50 effort.

It's just butthurt, don't make a big deal of it.
salempc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2012, 08:33 PM   #22
parkt921k
samoKai
 
parkt921k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Flensburg
actually, this message came to me about four days after I had indeed told him I'd be playing tca songs. It was more that I took it as a given. I would've said sth like "yeah, and when I play that acoustic show in two weeks, it'll be hard to play can you swim just acoustically because there's so much going on in that song", instead of:

"I'm playing an acoustic show in front of 8 people in two weeks, can I please play one of our songs we wrote together?"

so when you say 'you should have told him', of course I did, it's just that I didn't even think it'd be a problem.. turns out it was, which was a huge red flag
__________________
the cruel april
parkt921k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2012, 09:52 PM   #23
AlanHB
Godin's Resident Groupie
 
AlanHB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Canberra, Australia
Quote:
Originally Posted by amonamarthmetal
I'm talking about The Tabs&Chords section.... things that people on this forum make to show other members.


I'm talking about whether the tab would exist if the original song, which you didn't write, didn't exist. How much credit do you want for someone else's song?
__________________
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
AlanHB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 01:35 AM   #24
salempc
Registered User
 
salempc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by parkt921k
actually, this message came to me about four days after I had indeed told him I'd be playing tca songs. It was more that I took it as a given. I would've said sth like "yeah, and when I play that acoustic show in two weeks, it'll be hard to play can you swim just acoustically because there's so much going on in that song", instead of:

"I'm playing an acoustic show in front of 8 people in two weeks, can I please play one of our songs we wrote together?"

so when you say 'you should have told him', of course I did, it's just that I didn't even think it'd be a problem.. turns out it was, which was a huge red flag


Well he is a dick then.
salempc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 05:17 PM   #25
parkt921k
samoKai
 
parkt921k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Flensburg
helps my clarity anyway, a difficult situation overall for the music and me too. sucks losing someone you thought was your friend
__________________
the cruel april

Last edited by parkt921k : 11-27-2012 at 05:19 PM.
parkt921k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2012, 10:47 PM   #26
axemanchris
Awwww.... NOW what?!
 
axemanchris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
As has been established, it sounds like you own the majority of the songwriting - but not all of it. That's fine. If he contributed 5% (or even 1%), he still deserves credit. A song may be listed as being by Tyler and Perry, but that doesn't mean it was 50/50.

Where you indicate the percentage is in the copyright paperwork, the performance royalties paperwork (ie ASCAP), and the mechanical rights paperwork (ex. Harry Fox Agency). In that case, it would be listed as Tyler (95%) and Perry (5%) or whatever. Those figures are then used to calculate how much money each person gets when royalties are distributed.

As far as live use goes, it has already been established correctly that the venue operators pay an annual license for the public performances of copyrighted material. He can no more say that you can't use the songs he co-wrote than Billy Joe Armstrong can tell you not to play a Green Day cover.

One nit-pick from above - performance royalties are not the fees paid to people who perform on an album. Performance royalties are paid out when a song is performed in public, which strangely enough, includes "performances" of the recording (ex. television, radio, etc.)

CT
__________________
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by firehawk
Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
axemanchris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2012, 03:27 PM   #27
Joshua1207
Hipster Jesus
 
Joshua1207's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Puyallup, Washington
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanHB
I'm talking about whether the tab would exist if the original song, which you didn't write, didn't exist. How much credit do you want for someone else's song?


Pretty sure he is talking about songs in this section http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/foru....php?forumid=46 songs that people do write themselves.
__________________
LISTEN TO MY NEWEST HITS @ SOUNDCLOUD
https://soundcloud.com/joshua1207
Download my Visual Novel here Information about it here
New Album Melancholic
LIKE MY FACEBOOK http://www.facebook.com/MockOffMusic
Joshua1207 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 07:23 PM   #28
onebetter
User Registered
 
onebetter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Massachusetts
There's two components to copyright, only one of which is relevant here. The first is the ownership of the composition itself (i.e. the lyrics, melody, chords, and riffs.) The other is the sound recording.

Copyright is automatically enacted whenever something is "fixed in tangible form," meaning when music/lyrics are written down and/or a song is recorded. In the case of compositions, the rights are shared equally by everyone who contributed to the work, unless otherwise agreed upon in a written contract.

So, in saying that you can't perform these songs without his permission, he is right, since as joint owners of the compositions, you have equal say in their use.

However, it gets sticky when talking about how the copyright is claimed. I'm assuming none of these songs have been registered with the U.S. Copyright Office? If not, your friend will be hard-pressed to stop you from performing the songs, even if it is technically illegal.

You guys should draft a written agreement. That way you can negotiate what uses of the songs are fair and which require permission. Best to get everything in writing when it comes to legal issues.
onebetter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 05:04 PM   #29
axemanchris
Awwww.... NOW what?!
 
axemanchris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Quote:
Originally Posted by onebetter
So, in saying that you can't perform these songs without his permission, he is right, since as joint owners of the compositions, you have equal say in their use.


Not any more than Keith Richards can tell you not to play a Rolling Stones' song. I've never heard of anyone successfully preventing a live performance of a song. Ever. As long as the venue has paid the blanket license that allows the performance of copyrighted material, you can play whose-ever song you want.

Quote:
Originally Posted by onebetter
You guys should draft a written agreement. That way you can negotiate what uses of the songs are fair and which require permission. Best to get everything in writing when it comes to legal issues.


Maybe, except a lot of these issues already have laws around them that determine what can be done legally anyways.

When you register the song, whether it be with a copyright office, a performance rights association, or a mechanical licensing organization, it will always be part of the process to itemize who owns how much of the song. ex. Jagger = 60%, Richards = 40%; or Lennon = 50% and McCartney = 50% or whatever.

As long as you have 50% ownership of a composition, you can grant various permissions for whatever uses come into circumstance.

CT
__________________
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by firehawk
Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
axemanchris is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:05 AM.

Forum Archives / About / Terms of Use / Advertise / Contact / Ultimate-Guitar.Com © 2014
Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.