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Old 10-15-2012, 07:58 PM   #41
mdc
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Stick with the patterns. Patterns are good, but don't just play them for the sake of it. Sing then like I said, and play them to a backing track...

... it's all about the sound.
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Old 10-15-2012, 08:06 PM   #42
whiplash_87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Dawg158
Can you show me some sheet music that is clearly labeled as being in the key of E Dorian? And you seem to have caught the idea that AeolianWolf is trying to point out to you. Dorian is just a variation of the natural minor scale, like the melodic and harmonic minors, but their use does not change the key of the piece from E minor so why should Dorian?

To TS,
What you will accomplish by learning things in this manner is an empty understanding of how music is created. It will probably make you into a fast, but less than steller lead guitarist, and an even worse musician. Take Hotspur's advice and learn theory the proper way if that is your goal. If you wish to continue in your current path then at least learn songs by ear so that you will gain an ear for music rather than aimlessly plowing up and down scales and appegios like there's no tomorrow. The world has enough bland shredders for my taste.


I originally started playing because I loved rock so i started playing guitar mostly due to bands like metallica and Iron Maiden and Randy Rhoads and things of that nature and while I learned a lot of their songs I reached a point where i didnt play guitar much for the past year because I got bored playing other peoples stuff and never knowing how to make anything of my own or to be able to jam over a drum track or anything. So i decided to start learning theory and so far it is getting the best of me I think.
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Old 10-15-2012, 08:10 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by mdc
Stick with the patterns. Patterns are good, but don't just play them for the sake of it. Sing then like I said, and play them to a backing track...

... it's all about the sound.


yeah I understand not to just play the patterns up and down the fretboard and that it just helps make a road map in a way so I try and do that I just see a lot of mixed reviews by this point on these patterns being pointless so I dont really know what to do from here.
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Old 10-15-2012, 08:16 PM   #44
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They're (shapes) dissed a lot on this forum. Which is a shame.

You're a guitarist, scale shapes are your friend. Create melodic patterns out of them, sequence them.

Study solos.
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Old 10-15-2012, 08:24 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by mdc
They're (shapes) dissed a lot on this forum. Which is a shame.

You're a guitarist, scale shapes are your friend. Create melodic patterns out of them, sequence them.

Study solos.


Here is kind of a dumb question but if I were to not remember these shapes but instead to remember they all use the WWHWWWH intervals for the major scales I just find what notes are in each scale correct? And that will give me the same patterns?
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Old 10-15-2012, 08:30 PM   #46
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Exactly.
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Old 10-15-2012, 08:48 PM   #47
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So using the WWHWWWH is what I need to remember for all major scales correct? and then for minor scales the intervals are different correct? Also how do I find minor scales?
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Old 10-15-2012, 08:51 PM   #48
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The minor scale starts (and ends) on the 6th degree of the major scale. So what would the formula (WH...) be for the minor scale?

Last edited by mdc : 10-15-2012 at 08:52 PM.
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Old 10-15-2012, 11:10 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by whiplash_87
Sorry for the confusion, I mentioned those scales as examples, but my question was if I am playing any major scale the patterns that I drew out will stay the same they just move with the root note correct?


Yes. The whole scale just slides up and down the fretboard with the root note to make the same scale in another key.

Quote:
This whole thing started with me trying to learn the fretboard, and these patterns were kind of the first thing I was told to memorize. Obviously I am not getting too far and its quite frustrating so I am trying to figure out where to go from here.


I think, honestly, part of the reason it's hard is because you're getting some bad advice (basically everybody who's telling you to study modes).

If I were you, and wanted a comprehensive approach to getting better, I'd build a curriculum based on the following things:

First, the functional ear trainer, a free download from miles.be. Theoretical knowledge is only meaningful to the extent that you can hear it, so start training your ear now. This is tricky because you can learn theory pretty quickly, but training your ear is slow.

Then I'd get a good basic workbook on theory. I like Shroeder and Wyatt's "Harmony and Theory." Once you're comfortable with the functional ear trainer, I'd add Wyatt et al's "Ear Training for the Contemporary Musician" - this book goes hand in hand with the theory book.

Then I'd get a book to help you apply this specifically to the guitar. I like "The Guitar Fretboard Workbook."

You could essentially be using all of those tools at the same time. Yes, it's a $40-50 outlay for the three books, but working through those three books, using the ear trainer, and playing could easily take you six months to a year. The goal is NOT to rush, but rather to work your way through as a speed with which you can comfortably assimilate what you're learning.

Which brings me to the last, and most important point:

Don't learn any part of "theory" faster than you can actually apply it in making music. If you learn a new scale pattern, PLAY WITH IT. Make music with it. Only when you are comfortable making music with it should you move on to the next concept.

Music is not made intellectually. Cramming does you no good at all. Enjoy the process, learning to hear and then play new concepts. Make music. Fully explore each new tool and get comfortable with it before you move on to the next one.
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Old 10-17-2012, 03:13 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdc
The minor scale starts (and ends) on the 6th degree of the major scale. So what would the formula (WH...) be for the minor scale?


I dont quite understand this
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Old 10-17-2012, 03:23 PM   #51
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What don't you understand? The terms "formula and degree" or what?
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Old 10-22-2012, 02:02 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by mdc
What don't you understand? The terms "formula and degree" or what?

That whole post basically haha, a degree is just one of the notes right? I basically wasn't sure what you meant by that above post.
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Old 10-22-2012, 05:32 AM   #53
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Hey dude, this is a great way to start with basic theory:

http://ebookee.org/The-Jazz-Theory-...t-_1723810.html
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Old 10-22-2012, 02:35 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by whiplash_87
That whole post basically haha, a degree is just one of the notes right? I basically wasn't sure what you meant by that above post.

Here's what he's getting at:

If you know how to build the major scale, then you know how to build the natural minor as well. Here's why:

C major: C D E F G A B C
A minor: A B C D E F G

These two scales share the same exact notes. The only difference is what pitch is perceived as the tonic (the pitch that feels like home). If you notice: A is the 6th note of the C major scale. So, if you take the 6th note of any major scale, and just use the same notes and spell it out - you will have the relative minor.

Relative minor: A minor scale that shares the same notes as a major scale a 3rd(6th) away.

Give it a try...

G major: G A B C D E F#
Relative Minor: E minor

D major: D E F# G A B C#
Relative minor:

A major: A B C# D E F# G#
Relative minor:
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