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Old 11-17-2012, 09:48 PM   #1
morethanever
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Modes Question

trying to understand modes, trying to figure out if my thinking is right...

Given a chord progression G-D-Em-C
and I want to play in Dorian Mode throughout a solo going through that progression, I'm thinking I'd play:
- Fmaj scale on G
- Cmaj scaleonD
- Dmaj scale on Em (minor might be differnt)
- Bb maj scale on C

Am i following this the right way??
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Old 11-17-2012, 09:53 PM   #2
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You can't play the Dorian mode over that progression because it's in the key of G major. Anything you play will resolve to G, never D.
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Old 11-17-2012, 09:55 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockingamer2
You can't play the Dorian mode over that progression because it's in the key of G major. Anything you play will resolve to G, never D.

Question gets answered in 1 reply.

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Old 11-17-2012, 10:05 PM   #4
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you can play A Dorian, which is the same as G major, you just center your pitch on A , it'll probably sound a bit weird, but if that's what your looking for you can try it, also, as for modes over chords long story short you can play any mode that contains the same notes as the chord being played
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:08 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Kharmel
you can play A Dorian, which is the same as G major, you just center your pitch on A , it'll probably sound a bit weird, but if that's what your looking for you can try it, also, as for modes over chords long story short you can play any mode that contains the same notes as the chord being played

It CAN'T be centered on A because the chord progression resolves to G. You're confusing modes with shapes of the major scale.
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Last edited by rockingamer2 : 11-17-2012 at 10:19 PM.
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:31 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockingamer2
It CAN'T be centered on A because the chord progression resolves to G. You're confusing modes with shapes of the major scale.

I'm not confusing anything, A is the relative dorian to G major, they contain the same notes, if you want to play a dorian mode over a Gmaj chord it should be cantered on a
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:39 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Bad Kharmel
I'm not confusing anything, A is the relative dorian to G major, they contain the same notes, if you want to play a dorian mode over a Gmaj chord it should be cantered on a

Again, you cannot play A Dorian at all because the harmony resolves to G, never A. You can play a scale shape starting on A (or B, C, D, etc), but it will always resolve to G. They share the same notes, but that by no means makes them the same.
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:47 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by rockingamer2
Again, you cannot play A Dorian at all because the harmony resolves to G, never A. You can play a scale shape starting on A (or B, C, D, etc), but it will always resolve to G. They share the same notes, but that by no means makes them the same.

his progression will always resolve to G, but that doesn't mean he has to play a solo that follows that same idea, if he wants it to feel dorian he just has to start and end on a, which will make most of the chords feel suspended, and give the song a different sorta trippy sound (a side note, spell check just flagged trippy but not sorta wtf)
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:53 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Kharmel
his progression will always resolve to G, but that doesn't mean he has to play a solo that follows that same idea, if he wants it to feel dorian he just has to start and end on a, which will make most of the chords feel suspended, and give the song a different sorta trippy sound (a side note, spell check just flagged trippy but not sorta wtf)

It doesn't matter what TS wants to do, everything will always pull towards G, including his solo. He can hang around A all he wants, it won't be Dorian.
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:55 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Kharmel
his progression will always resolve to G, but that doesn't mean he has to play a solo that follows that same idea, if he wants it to feel dorian he just has to start and end on a, which will make most of the chords feel suspended, and give the song a different sorta trippy sound (a side note, spell check just flagged trippy but not sorta wtf)


there is a big, big difference between ending a phrase on A and playing in A dorian. and i do mean a big, big, big difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by morethanever
trying to understand modes, trying to figure out if my thinking is right...

Given a chord progression G-D-Em-C
and I want to play in Dorian Mode throughout a solo going through that progression, I'm thinking I'd play:
- Fmaj scale on G
- Cmaj scaleonD
- Dmaj scale on Em (minor might be differnt)
- Bb maj scale on C

Am i following this the right way??


no, honestly. and you definitely don't seem to have the prerequisites down to understand modes. you seem like you just want to play in the dorian mode because it's a fancy name. and honestly, i can't blame you - there are millions of guitarists out there who are after the same thing. but here's the thing: music theory isn't like technique -- you don't just say "today, i'm going to learn about tritone substitutions" like you would say "today, i'm going to learn about economy picking". theory is cumulative - you need to understand the basics before you can move on to the more advanced concepts, because these advanced concepts are built off of the fundamentals. to utilize an analogy, it's kind of like trying to understand what i'm typing here without a knowledge of the latin alphabet. ultimately, it isn't going to get you far - you'll walk away with a little knowledge of a few words, but even then, you won't understand how to use them.

instead, let me point you in a more productive direction. stop worrying about modes and learn as much as you can about the concept of a key and all the things that entails (intervals, chords, scales, etc.). this will serve you far better than having knowledge of modes. you seem like you're already on the right track to that (at least partly), so just take it a little further.

this thread is over. anything that happens past this (and something will, i guarantee you), i encourage you to ignore.
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Old 11-18-2012, 12:06 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AeolianWolf
there is a big, big difference between ending a phrase on A and playing in A dorian. and i do mean a big, big, big difference.



no, honestly. and you definitely don't seem to have the prerequisites down to understand modes. you seem like you just want to play in the dorian mode because it's a fancy name. and honestly, i can't blame you - there are millions of guitarists out there who are after the same thing. but here's the thing: music theory isn't like technique -- you don't just say "today, i'm going to learn about tritone substitutions" like you would say "today, i'm going to learn about economy picking". theory is cumulative - you need to understand the basics before you can move on to the more advanced concepts, because these advanced concepts are built off of the fundamentals. to utilize an analogy, it's kind of like trying to understand what i'm typing here without a knowledge of the latin alphabet. ultimately, it isn't going to get you far - you'll walk away with a little knowledge of a few words, but even then, you won't understand how to use them.

instead, let me point you in a more productive direction. stop worrying about modes and learn as much as you can about the concept of a key and all the things that entails (intervals, chords, scales, etc.). this will serve you far better than having knowledge of modes. you seem like you're already on the right track to that (at least partly), so just take it a little further.

this thread is over. anything that happens past this (and something will, i guarantee you), i encourage you to ignore.

This guy knows what he's talking about. I, too, was caught up in trying to learn modes a while back. Since having my ass kicked here in the Pit, I've put it on the backburner. I've been doing what this guy said (intervals, chords, scales, etc.) and it's helped me immensely. My playing has grown more in the past 4 months or so than the year before it. Driving my playing into a new direction, and utilizing different chords in a heavier context than you'd expect, and writing really cool technical stuff that actually sounds good.

Anyways, if you decide to pursue modes, good luck. But I, also, strongly urge you to build the fundamentals first. No shame in backing off for a while.

Cheers.
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Old 11-18-2012, 12:42 PM   #12
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From the OP, I'm under the impression you don't really understand functional harmony. G D Em C just screams G major. Trying to force anything else out of it is going to be really difficult.
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Old 11-18-2012, 01:08 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Kharmel
his progression will always resolve to G, but that doesn't mean he has to play a solo that follows that same idea, if he wants it to feel dorian he just has to start and end on a, which will make most of the chords feel suspended, and give the song a different sorta trippy sound (a side note, spell check just flagged trippy but not sorta wtf)


Even to the extent that I agree with you that there is a "Dorian feel" you won't get it by starting and ending on A in a G major context.

You just won't.
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Old 11-18-2012, 03:11 PM   #14
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dorian feel you say
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:35 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Hail


dorian feel you say


The Turk Feel is my favorite.

TS, follow Aeolians advice. He is more than usually correct in his way of thinking.

So, forget modes, they will get you nowhere, and fast.

Go learn songs by ear. That would be much more beneficial.
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:43 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morethanever
trying to understand modes, trying to figure out if my thinking is right...

Given a chord progression G-D-Em-C
and I want to play in Dorian Mode throughout a solo going through that progression, I'm thinking I'd play:
- Fmaj scale on G
- Cmaj scaleonD
- Dmaj scale on Em (minor might be differnt)
- Bb maj scale on C

Am i following this the right way??

Wwwwow. I don't have perfect pitch but relative pitch. I sung that progression without help from an instrument.

Can you not HEAR? Do you know what "resolve" means? Do you know what a cadence is? Do you know what a key is? Do you know what a tonic note is?
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Old 11-19-2012, 09:52 PM   #17
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You can't change the mode by playing a different pattern... A Dorian is the same exact scale as G Major with A being the tonic (the chord the song resolves to). There is no Am chord in that progression so it can't be in the Dorian mode...the progression resolves to G and all of the chords belong to the key of G Major so it is in G Major. Playing A Dorian over the progression is playing G Major.
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Old 11-21-2012, 10:32 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amonamarthmetal
Question gets answered in 1 reply.

MT will find a way to make this go on for 30 more posts.


This is #15. Come on, Joe, you've got 15 more to go.
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Old 11-21-2012, 11:15 AM   #19
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So anyway my new dishwasher got installed earlier. Had to get a plumber to sort out the hoses, those guys can charge an arm and a leg, and find reasons to go out to buy parts three times.
It was strangely exciting checking the cleaned dishes after the first wash, even though it was a waste using the machine for like two plates and a cup, and wouldve been far quicker doing em by hand.
Speaking of ******* appliances, I've got my eyes on one of those cookers that are built on top of some cupboards, so that the oven door is at the height of your waist or chest, would be easier than having to bend right down to check on stuff.

Heading out to get the ingredients for Chef Johns spicy chicken rigatoni, may get a haircut when I'm out too. Hate getting haircuts, so I always leave it too long and my hair is a mess.
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Old 11-21-2012, 12:09 PM   #20
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