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Old 08-18-2012, 05:44 PM   #21
Vittu0666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaggaraMarine
But really, it's pretty stupid to think harmonic, melodic and natural minor as separate scales.

THIS.

I can't tell you how many times I've tried to explain this to people.
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Old 08-18-2012, 05:47 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaggaraMarine
But really, it's pretty stupid to think harmonic, melodic and natural minor as separate scales.


the problem is, they actually are separate scales

that's why we try to just say "think in keys, not scales". semantics, but pretty important semantics.
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Old 08-18-2012, 05:56 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hail
the problem is, they actually are separate scales

that's why we try to just say "think in keys, not scales". semantics, but pretty important semantics.

By throwing out the thought of the natural, harmonic, and melodic are all completely separate, it opens up a whole world of opportunity. For example, you could be doing a progression like say... Am FMaj Dm EMaj. When the progression hits EMaj, to get rid of the awkwardness that arises from going from F to G#, you could incorporate the F# to smooth out the melody.
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Old 08-18-2012, 06:36 PM   #24
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Borrowing from all three minor scales is a handy way to create line cliches, though. In A, it gives a 6 note chromatic line from which you can harmonize.

I'll go descending... A G♯ G F♯ F E

Am - Ammaj7 - Am7 - D9 - Fmaj7 - Ealt
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Old 08-18-2012, 06:36 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeth09
Hey guys. I'm getting more into Harmonic and Melodic minor scales etc. I have memorized the scales on the fretboard but I figured that was the easy part and it is just as important to have a chord progression behind it to support the sound.

Now, let's say I want to use the 'mode' Harmonic Minor(the Aeolian version of the scale, as opposed to the Locrian #2 or Phyrigian Dominant etc). This mode is basically the Aeolian scale with a raised 7th. So should the first chord be a minor chord with a raised 7th? Do I basically emulate the discrepancies of the scale(like how a dominant 7th chord is used to emphasize the flat 7th characteristic of the Mixolydian scale) or is it merely a case of using a set of chords like minor-minor-aug-major7- etc??



Some modes have a raised 5th etc so implementing that raised 5th into a chord could be quite hard. Can it be done that way or would conventional minor/major/aug/dim/maj7/min7 chords work in creating a harmonic minor chord progression? Thanks in advance.


A basic chord progression for A harmonic minor could be :

|Am | Dm | E | E7 |

over this progression you could 'target.' 7ths i.e these notes :

|G#|C | D| D|

3rds are also a good choice :

|C|F|G#|G#|

to solo over a Cmaj7#5 in this context you will end up with a very similar situation to a Bm7b5 to E7. The chords of Am/major7th are A,C,E,G#
the Cmaj7#5 has C,E,G#,B
This strongly Suggests an Am9/maj7 chord without the root note.

If on the other hand we had this progression

|Cmaj7|Cmaj7#5|C6|Fmaj7|
|Am7|Dm7|G7|G7sus4|
the chord becomes more defined.

I guess what i am trying to explain is if you are thinking of your mode (aeolian raised 7th) the Cmaj7#5 is weak and works more as an inversion with extensions to Am.

so the chords harmonised with 7th in A harmonic minor :
Am/maj7
Bm7b5 (Inversion of E11 b9)
Cmaj7#5 (inversion of Am9/maj7)
Dm7
E7
Fmaj7
G#dim7 ( inversion of E7b9 )

so to me , the strong chords are Am Dm E7 and Fmaj7 everything else is a substitution.


Ok so here is my 8 bar progression :

|Am|Fmaj7| Dm7 |E7|

|Am7|Dm7|Fmaj7|E7|

and with substitutions :

|Am|Fmaj7|Dm7|G#dim7|

|Cmaj7#5|Dm7|Fmaj7|Bm7b5 |
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Old 08-18-2012, 06:43 PM   #26
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Old 08-18-2012, 06:54 PM   #27
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The way I think of it, it's all just minor tonality, and I selectively use a raised 6th and 7th as the harmony indicates, or to taste when building melody. One could say that "you're intermixing natural minor, harmonic minor, and melodic minor", but that doesn't really resemble the thought process behind it. I understand why the connection is made though.
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Old 08-18-2012, 07:02 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vittu0666
By throwing out the thought of the natural, harmonic, and melodic are all completely separate, it opens up a whole world of opportunity. For example, you could be doing a progression like say... Am FMaj Dm EMaj. When the progression hits EMaj, to get rid of the awkwardness that arises from going from F to G#, you could incorporate the F# to smooth out the melody.


you can be in E minor and use any of those minor scales, but you don't get there by saying "they're all the same scale". you can't redefine them, only eliminate their priority.

this whole "they're the same thing" is the same mindset that perpetuates that annoying misunderstand of modes we all hate.

you have the right idea, it's just a semantic pet peeve of mine - students take semantics to heart if you can't clarify accurately.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Brainpolice
The way I think of it, it's all just minor tonality, and I selectively use a raised 6th and 7th as the harmony indicates, or to taste when building melody. One could say that "you're intermixing natural minor, harmonic minor, and melodic minor", but that doesn't really resemble the thought process behind it. I understand why the connection is made though.


i like this

Last edited by Hail : 08-18-2012 at 07:05 PM.
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Old 08-19-2012, 12:17 AM   #29
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Great info guys. Keep it coming, I'm trying to piece it all together.
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