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Old 09-26-2013, 02:25 PM   #1
DustinMartel
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Arrow How Do I Move On From Pentatonic Scales?

I've been playing guitar for 2 years now, all self taught and I am stuck on pentatonic. I love pentatonic and everything but I want to learn how to shred going up and down the neck. I have learned some pentatonic extensions but it sounds the same to me. I have also tried learning different scales but they aren't working for me, like ill learn them, play them for about a week then just forget about it. Please someone help me!!
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Old 09-26-2013, 03:11 PM   #2
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pentatonic extensions (if i'm understanding what you mean) should sound the same as they're still pentatonic, just at a higher or lower pitch from the box shape you're currently playing in.

Try adding one note at a time. For example, the blues scale is minor pentatonic with an added flat 5th. that should be easier to get under your fingers than trying to learn a whole new scale.

the major scale is just the major pentatonic with an added 4th and 7th.

the minor scale is just the minor pentatonic with an added 2nd and 6th.

If you think like that and only add a little at a time it might make it a little easier.
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Old 09-27-2013, 05:59 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by DustinMartel
I have also tried learning different scales but they aren't working for me, like ill learn them, play them for about a week then just forget about it.


This could be the weak link, how exactly are you going about learning these other scales?
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Old 09-27-2013, 08:05 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DustinMartel
I've been playing guitar for 2 years now, all self taught and I am stuck on pentatonic. I love pentatonic and everything but I want to learn how to shred going up and down the neck. I have learned some pentatonic extensions but it sounds the same to me. I have also tried learning different scales but they aren't working for me, like ill learn them, play them for about a week then just forget about it. Please someone help me!!

Question, do you actually understand how and why the pentatonic scale works, or are you just familiar with the pattern on the fretboard?
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Old 09-27-2013, 01:07 PM   #5
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^ yeah the advice I gave admittedly works better if you understand a little theory. I know I'm the one who's constantly saying that there's no need to get totally bogged down in the theory, but at the same time a little goes a long way and it's hard to really improve if you don't know *any* theory...
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Old 09-28-2013, 07:25 PM   #6
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Just look up the formula for the major scale and get cranking. There are only 12.
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Old 10-05-2013, 06:35 AM   #7
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Instead of learning other scales, learn why the Pentatonic is what it is, then focus on the major scale to round out that knowledge into a more stable platform from which to develop.
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Old 10-05-2013, 11:30 AM   #8
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^ yeah. a diatonic major scale is 71.4% (yay windows calculator ) the same as a pentatonic major scale. you don't have to start learning the diatonic major scale from scratch, in other words.
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Old 10-07-2013, 04:50 PM   #9
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If you want to progress on the neck up and down, you need to know all the positions of pentatonic - yes they sound the same. There is a reason for that, they are the same tones. However, I assume you know A minor pentatonic. You should start adding B and F to your licks and you'll ger A minor (C major) scale. Or you can add D# and you get a blues scale. (If you master E minor pentatonic, you add F# and C and you get E minor, or add A# to get E blues). A scale is a number of specific notes. On guitar one note can be found on many places. Then the same note an octave up can be found on many places. That's why you got all neck off those notes, altough it's only seven notes in minor scale.

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Old 10-08-2013, 08:39 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_Mc
pentatonic extensions (if i'm understanding what you mean) should sound the same as they're still pentatonic, just at a higher or lower pitch from the box shape you're currently playing in.


This is not what I originally took it to mean, but I guess he could mean this.

OP, when you say "pentatonic extensions" are you talking about learning more positions to play the scale on the neck, or are you adding notes to the scale to create other scales?

You can extend the 5 notes of the pentatonic scale out to 7 and end up with many more scales (which will sound different), but if you're only playing the same notes on different frets, you're not actually using any extentions, and it's just the same scale.

So, my question is: do you know the pentatonic scale over the entire neck? Not that it's necessary in order to start learning other scales, but it will help to know what you mean by "pentatonic extensions".
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Old 10-08-2013, 01:40 PM   #11
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This is not what I originally took it to mean, but I guess he could mean this.

OP, when you say "pentatonic extensions" are you talking about learning more positions to play the scale on the neck, or are you adding notes to the scale to create other scales?

You can extend the 5 notes of the pentatonic scale out to 7 and end up with many more scales (which will sound different), but if you're only playing the same notes on different frets, you're not actually using any extentions, and it's just the same scale.

So, my question is: do you know the pentatonic scale over the entire neck? Not that it's necessary in order to start learning other scales, but it will help to know what you mean by "pentatonic extensions".


yeah it is a bit ambiguous if he doesn't clarify exactly what he means by that
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Old 10-14-2013, 02:54 AM   #12
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Learn blues scale which only adds one more note to pentatonic but in result it really helps to sound more varied
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Old 10-14-2013, 04:27 AM   #13
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There's only so much more you can understand about what you want to know, without immersing yourself in a bit of theory. Aside from "hearing" what sounds good, you need to develop reflexive muscle memory and a little bit of visual understanding of how shapes and runs and phrases fit together within keys.

The pentatonic scale is a firm groundwork in the sense that you are already (relatively) understanding of what is going to be tension and resolution of an: idea, phrase, motif, run, lick, fragment etc....atleast with your ear

Figure out major/minor all over the fretboard

Figure out technique application and what sounds good to you

Listen to some good old widdlywiddlywiddly

Read more UG columns about technique, read Freepower and TheShred201's guides and articles about technique.

Watch Marty Friedman's "Melodic Control"

Turn up your mids and Roll back your treble, switch into the neck position and roll your tone knob back a little bit and start with Eric Johnson and work your way to Shawn Lane in terms of listening.

Then sit down with your metronome and improvise. And practice more than you sleep
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Old 10-16-2013, 03:00 AM   #14
atza
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Iteresting that those old school guitar players are still used to give examples and to direct beginners to. i mean Paul Gilbert,Eric Johnson and such... And come to think of it there have not been any new guitar heroes for years now. Its all Lady Gagas and alike now
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Old 10-16-2013, 02:57 PM   #15
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Lady gaga is awesome. If all pop music were as good as Lady Gaga I'd be a happy bunny.

That being said I agree there aren't enough good guitar players currently (getting famous, at least). that's hardly lady gaga's fault, though, there's always been pop music. It's more rock music's fault for disallowing solos for so many years etc.
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Old 10-18-2013, 10:42 AM   #16
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I also want to add a bit of variety to my playing and I've got a fairly solid grip of the minor and major pentatonic scale. My question, and I'm sure it will be difficult to phrase, is, say you're playing the blues progression I, IV, V as backing music, and you want to solo on top of that. I can see that you can use the minor pentatonic starting from the route note of the I chord over the whole progression, but can you use the scales starting from the route note of, successively, the IV and the V chord as the music progresses, or will this just sound a mess?
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Old 10-18-2013, 11:24 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by fergus4000
I also want to add a bit of variety to my playing and I've got a fairly solid grip of the minor and major pentatonic scale. My question, and I'm sure it will be difficult to phrase, is, say you're playing the blues progression I, IV, V as backing music, and you want to solo on top of that. I can see that you can use the minor pentatonic starting from the route note of the I chord over the whole progression, but can you use the scales starting from the route note of, successively, the IV and the V chord as the music progresses, or will this just sound a mess?


Depends entirely how you do it. Following the chords with a straight minor pentatonic is pretty safe (so in A for example you'd play A, D and E minor pentatonic over the relevant chords) but anything more than that is going to require more care and practice to get 'right'.
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Old 10-18-2013, 11:43 AM   #18
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thanks
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Old 10-18-2013, 11:45 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fergus4000
I also want to add a bit of variety to my playing and I've got a fairly solid grip of the minor and major pentatonic scale. My question, and I'm sure it will be difficult to phrase, is, say you're playing the blues progression I, IV, V as backing music, and you want to solo on top of that. I can see that you can use the minor pentatonic starting from the route note of the I chord over the whole progression, but can you use the scales starting from the route note of, successively, the IV and the V chord as the music progresses, or will this just sound a mess?

I don't like changing the scale that way. I would rather add some accidentals. I many times use major 6th and major 2nd - oh, and of course the major third. They fit the blues pretty well. If the song is in A, I use A minor pentatonic all the time (and accidentals if needed).
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