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Old 11-19-2012, 04:29 PM   #21
dementiacaptain
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Old 11-19-2012, 04:32 PM   #22
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1175 megavolts would be the equivalent of a couple of nuclear power stations mate.
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Old 11-19-2012, 04:40 PM   #23
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I use an Alternative 8 to warm up an all-maple, ebony-fretboard guitar. The result is similar in tone to my Les Paul with BurstBucker pickups. So... yeah. Warmth and thickness is what it's all about, not treble in any way.

Also, output can't be measured in mV. Well, technically it can, but those ratings are meaningless in practical applications. A Seymour Duncan Hot Stack, for example, will give you a much hotter reading than a SD Hot Rails, but when you stick them into an amp or mixer you'll find the Hot Rails has absurdly high output while the Hot Stack has barely more output than a regular Tele pickup. Again, this is why you shouldn't pay much attention to spec sheets and what the manufacturers say. Actually using lots of different pickups in the same or similar rigs is the only way to really tell what's going on.

This is also the very first time I've heard anyone call an Invader 'versatile'.

And the Full Shred doesn't use an Alnico 8, it has an A5. The reason the Invader sounds 'warmer' to you is because it's wound so ridiculously hot that almost all treble detail is lost, while the Full Shred is made to be more responsive so the coils aren't wound as hot, retaining more treble.

And of note,
Quote:
Isn't the 60AX higher output than an active 81?
Yes, I worded myself poorly. I should have said compared to all the low-output pickups.



But anyway.

You don't really get "higher gain" than a Full Shred in a passive pickup. Mostly because gain is something on the amp, not related to the pickup But I knwo what you mean, and really the point is that output only really matters at the most extreme ends and with low to medium-gain amps. If you're using high gain on your amp then the pickup output won't matter much whe you're talking about passives. Actives have such a huge jump up that they will make a difference, but in the world of passives the output difference between something like, for example, a JB and an Invader is virtually nothing, unless you run quite low gain.
But a hotter sound, we can certainly do. Leaving aside the Alt 8, the regular ol' SD JB would be a good place to start - it's simply a Full Shred wound for a little more output with more mids and bass. An SD Custom may also do the trick, check out some Nightwish songs for an idea of what that sounds like with a metal-meets-prog-rock tone in a Floyd/ebony guitar. It's ceramic, so it can be a little harsh if you run your amp with the treble control pushed up, but it's got a much smoother tone than most high-output pickups; of all 'metal' pickups, it has some of the best traditional clean tones. The SD Distortion Parallel Axis would also work well, though its clean tone is rather bizarre with some amps; if you run your amp with scooped mids or with very high treble/presence, it's going to sound too responsive, if that makes any sense.
DiMarzio do make a few pickups that will do what you want, but generally Seymour Duncan are the kings of smoother and warmer tones. The DM Evo 2 is basically the same as the SD Custom, but a touch more transparent - there's a risk it will make your guitar sound like a Telecaster, its an odd trait and quite unpredictable. A standard Super Distortion may work out for you, I do think the Tone Zone or Breed would be a better fit for ebony/Floyd, but the Super Distortion does have more output if that's something you're really fixated on. If you can tear yourself away from super-high output - a good idea if you already run your amp with a lot of gain - then the DM AT-1 could work. I'm not a fan of it myself as it occupies a weird space between medium output and true high output, but tonally it does what you're after; slightly more output than a Full Shred and with a bigger focus on the low-mids than the treble.
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Old 11-19-2012, 04:52 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T00DEEPBLUE
1175 megavolts would be the equivalent of a couple of nuclear power stations mate.



... You DON'T have Uranium-powered pickups? SUPER ACTIVES!
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:04 PM   #25
dark Mass
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KSEjunkie2468
Hmm yea I see on Dimarzio's site that pickup has

Mid: 8.0

Bass: 6.5

Treble: 5.0

For the EQ chart.

Are the mids too much do you think, and is it good sounding more metal? (I don't like scooped mids)

I have this pickup installed on my RR24 it's great though you'll need a bright amp to get it sounding right.

It's also not a friendly pickup in mahogany as it's way too dark on the top end.
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:03 PM   #26
KSEjunkie2468
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFlibble
I use an Alternative 8 to warm up an all-maple, ebony-fretboard guitar. The result is similar in tone to my Les Paul with BurstBucker pickups. So... yeah. Warmth and thickness is what it's all about, not treble in any way.

Also, output can't be measured in mV. Well, technically it can, but those ratings are meaningless in practical applications. A Seymour Duncan Hot Stack, for example, will give you a much hotter reading than a SD Hot Rails, but when you stick them into an amp or mixer you'll find the Hot Rails has absurdly high output while the Hot Stack has barely more output than a regular Tele pickup. Again, this is why you shouldn't pay much attention to spec sheets and what the manufacturers say. Actually using lots of different pickups in the same or similar rigs is the only way to really tell what's going on
.
[QUOTE=MrFlibble]
This is also the very first time I've heard anyone call an Invader 'versatile'.

Compared to the EMG 81 bridge I meant XD. Which, turning rolling back the volume just gives the same tone but quiter.

"And the Full Shred doesn't use an Alnico 8, it has an A5." My mistake there, it is an A5 XD.



at 1:19, the Alternative 8 plays, and I feel like its too trebly. XD Comparing to the Duncan Distortion and Invader.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFlibble
You don't really get "higher gain" than a Full Shred in a passive pickup. Mostly because gain is something on the amp, not related to the pickup But I knwo what you mean, and really the point is that output only really matters at the most extreme ends and with low to medium-gain amps. If you're using high gain on your amp then the pickup output won't matter much whe you're talking about passives. Actives have such a huge jump up that they will make a difference, but in the world of passives the output difference between something like, for example, a JB and an Invader is virtually nothing, unless you run quite low gain.


I don't know, when I play a moderate output pickup vs, a high input pickup, I can get both of them to have the same gain, but I need to turn up the gain control on the amp for the lesser output pickup, resulting in more noise and hum. The higher output doesn't need as such a high setting on the gain knob I've found. And doesn't output matter with passive pickups? I switched a full shred from a full shred in the neck of one guitar, to a distortion in the neck, and the fullshred sounded weak in comparison like it needed more gain from my amp. And yea the Invader and JB did have tonal similarities in that Ytube video I linked you to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFlibble
But a hotter sound, we can certainly do. Leaving aside the Alt 8, the regular ol' SD JB would be a good place to start - it's simply a Full Shred wound for a little more output with more mids and bass.


But you said there was virtually no difference between a JB and invader.


And thanks for the other recommendations, I will consider those pickups!
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:48 PM   #27
dark Mass
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The Alternative 8 has a prominent high mids.



EDIT: Ola used a Axe FX processor in the video you posted so it's going to have a better high end clarity since it's digital.
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Last edited by dark Mass : 11-19-2012 at 11:55 PM.
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Old 11-20-2012, 01:47 PM   #28
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Yea, I definitely prefer the tone of the JB here compared to the Alt 8. The Alt8 seems to weaken everything in accordance to my idea of the tone I'm looking for.

The JB and Duncan Custom sound pretty similar, and I find that the Distortion annihilates the Full Shred, which is what I have now, but the Distortion is supposed to have piss poor cleans.

The sound of the Custom and Distortion sound pretty similar, the distortion having a bit more oomph, but that that much more oomph. If the Custom has the best cleans of these pickups, then the custom looks like the way to go. But I do feel conflicted because Dimarzio's D Activator, Super Distortion etc., seem to have quite good reviews describing the tones I'm looking for. It'll come down between those pickups in the end I anticipate.

Does anyone know of Dimarzio videos where pickups are compared back to back?
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