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Old 01-15-2014, 11:46 AM   #21
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Thanks Tim. You're right. DAW not DAR. I don't think the Daughter's of the American Revolution would be helpful in this situation. Thanks for the info on Voxengo at voxengo.com. Looks like quite a lot of nice free VST stuff. The Voxengo Span looks like it would be perfect for what I was talking about.
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Old 01-15-2014, 11:58 AM   #22
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Getting the vocals to sit in a mix is a regular issue with a lot of recording engineers. I have watched videos, read articles and pulled my hair out (oh, that's where it went) over this issue. The frustrating thing is that each musician or singer has a different take on how much "out front" they want the vocal. Just when I think it's perfect, my musical partner wants it more out front while I like it seated in the mix, more in line with the music. I have done sessions where the vocalist wants it practically buried in the mix. Often it comes down to opinion. Even the best engineers have this problem. According to Geoff Emerick (Beatles recording engineer) John Lennon always wanted to radically change the sound of his voice with delays, reverbs, slowed down tapes or running it through an organ Leslie, anything to change it. One the greatest rock vocalists ever and he wanted to bury his voice in the music.
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Old 01-15-2014, 12:15 PM   #23
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The problem might not necessarily be the vocals, but everything else not having enough room for them. The power of the vocals comes from the low mids, from maybe 200 to 600. Most metal producers will cut a chunk out of the guitars, usually centered somewhere from 300 to 500, to give the vocals some room, and you can see that in a spectrogram.
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Old 01-15-2014, 02:01 PM   #24
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Imo the most important thing with vocals is to get a good take.

People rather hear a less good vocal mix than a bad take.

Well not rather, but music essentially is getting attention, and then getting a message or feels across, and this is largely determined in the take.

If you can't get the sound to work in the mix and you feel you've done all, you should not rule out the possibility that the take might not be good.

I have heard raw takes of hit singers, and audio-technically I would redo some of I heard. Yet they went on as final take and sold 500million copies.

Basic deduction shows us how important the take is, more so then the technicalities.

Don't rule out the take especially with vocals.

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Old 01-15-2014, 06:53 PM   #25
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^ absolutely agree. To take it further, if it doesn't sound right when you're tracking, you're not going to make it sound right. Get it right at the source and mixing is easy!!
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Old 01-17-2014, 12:53 PM   #26
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Tim, you are correct about getting it right first. If it isn't almost exactly what you want to hear no mixing magic will help. Do it again and again if necessary. It's also a time waster. My partner (who is an excellent singer) will record a vocal track and say that it sounds good, it's what she wanted and we can move on. Days later when I mix and master that track she wants to re-do the vocal or at least parts of it. After spending what could be a few hours mixing and mastering it's really frustrating to want to go back to re-cut a new vocal track and start all over with the mixing and mastering. Get it right on the raw track 1st. Make sure it sounds good with no effects. FX and compression will not make a bad vocal good and I find it very hard to drop in a new vocal section on another day when the whole feel and timber of the person's voice will be different.
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Old 01-21-2014, 04:16 PM   #27
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Thanks alot for all of the great advices! Sorry for the late reply! I'll be applying the techniques mentioned and upload the song!
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