Go Back   UG Community @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com > UG Community > The Pit
User Name  
Password
Search:

Reply
Old 08-26-2015, 01:20 AM   #64301
Axelfox
Registered User
 
Axelfox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Kapolei
Hillary should get into trouble. She used a private email server. Many companies actually have rules against using certain email providers.
Axelfox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 09:20 AM   #64302
USCENDONE BENE
12
 
USCENDONE BENE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: What's the furthest place from here?
What are people's thoughts on Noam Chomsky?

I'm trying to choose my first Chomsky book (governmental/political) to read. I wasn't sure if I should post this in the book thread or not, but i'm also trying to get a consensus on the man's political views.

Whenever I read an interview of his, something speaks to me and resonates within me. But i'm not sure if this is just because i'm a contrarian POS or because it affirms things I already suspect etc.

I see that he has lectured at MIT for 50 years and take that as all the reliability factor I need, even though i'm aware college professors are not infallible and can be biased (see: Inside Job)

A criticism I have come across in several (amateur) reviews of his books goes along the lines of: 'the man gained a reputation as the guy in linguistics, and used that reputation to spout lefty, conspiracy-theory-eaque ramblings,' or; 'When I become the world's foremost professor of underwater basketweaving, I'm going to branch out into global politics as well.'

Where do guys land on this? Also, any book recommendations?
__________________
"If you want beef, then bring the ruckus." - Marilyn Monroe
USCENDONE BENE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 09:35 AM   #64303
Fat Lard
.
 
Fat Lard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
I'm not a lefty -- and dont agree with everything he says -- but I have a lot of respect for him based on some lectures, and this one doc I saw of him years ago. Havent read anything apart from a 'debate' with a rather obtuse skeptic in the second last page of philosophy thread, which he seemed to handle okay enough given the steering of the convo.

Seems okay I guess
__________________
.
Fat Lard is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 09:52 AM   #64304
Fat Lard
.
 
Fat Lard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
And lol at the professor dig. Had to've seen/shown that doc with people at least 5 times lol
__________________
.
Fat Lard is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 10:00 AM   #64305
USCENDONE BENE
12
 
USCENDONE BENE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: What's the furthest place from here?
What do you think of it?
__________________
"If you want beef, then bring the ruckus." - Marilyn Monroe
USCENDONE BENE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 10:07 AM   #64306
Fat Lard
.
 
Fat Lard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
clearest, most comprehensive doc on the Great Recession/explains CDOs etc well. Completely engaging throughout.
__________________
.

Last edited by Fat Lard : Today at 10:13 AM.
Fat Lard is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 10:17 AM   #64307
Arby911
Finding the Pattern
 
Arby911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by USCENDONE BENE
What are people's thoughts on Noam Chomsky?

I'm trying to choose my first Chomsky book (governmental/political) to read. I wasn't sure if I should post this in the book thread or not, but i'm also trying to get a consensus on the man's political views.

Whenever I read an interview of his, something speaks to me and resonates within me. But i'm not sure if this is just because i'm a contrarian POS or because it affirms things I already suspect etc.

I see that he has lectured at MIT for 50 years and take that as all the reliability factor I need, even though i'm aware college professors are not infallible and can be biased (see: Inside Job)

A criticism I have come across in several (amateur) reviews of his books goes along the lines of: 'the man gained a reputation as the guy in linguistics, and used that reputation to spout lefty, conspiracy-theory-eaque ramblings,' or; 'When I become the world's foremost professor of underwater basketweaving, I'm going to branch out into global politics as well.'

Where do guys land on this? Also, any book recommendations?


I would urge you to do your research on Chomsky before you take too much of what he says seriously. In my opinion he's far too comfortable bending reality to his own ends in an alleged search for truth.
__________________
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
Arby911 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 10:18 AM   #64308
USCENDONE BENE
12
 
USCENDONE BENE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: What's the furthest place from here?
^ ^ Haha yeah, they certainly portrayed the 'refused to speak to us' moments as evidential when they didn't necessarily contribute to the film's argument.

But so you get my point about the reliability of professors and how that can't necessarily be used to show reliability.

With regards to Chomsky, he does talk about some things in Central and South America which aren't necessarily widely spoken of but corroborate some things I learned from one of my professors who I respected greatly, so I have no problem with taking what profs say at face value once I learn to trust them

^ I'm seeing a pattern in some of the anti-Chomsky writing with regards to him bending some 'truths' to fit his own narrative. I don't know if this is enough to discredit him, but then I don't know how deep into his work this posturing goes.
__________________
"If you want beef, then bring the ruckus." - Marilyn Monroe

Last edited by USCENDONE BENE : Today at 10:22 AM.
USCENDONE BENE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 10:25 AM   #64309
ErikLensherr
UG Fantastic
 
ErikLensherr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Chomsky's really smart. I read Understanding Power a long time ago and everything he says he backs up with examples and citations. The footnotes are longer than the book itself. Even if you don't agree with him you'll come away learning something new.
__________________
http://i.imgur.com/OEdlt6s.png
ErikLensherr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 10:25 AM   #64310
Arby911
Finding the Pattern
 
Arby911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by USCENDONE BENE
Haha yeah, they certainly portrayed the 'refused to speak to us' moments as evidential when they didn't necessarily contribute to the film's argument.

But so you get my point about the reliability of professors and how that can't necessarily be used to show reliability.

With regards to Chomsky, he does talk about some things in Central and South America which aren't necessarily widely spoken of but corroborate some things I learned from one of my professors who I respected greatly, so I have no problem with taking what profs say at face value once I learn to trust them


Con artists rely on this facet of human nature, the assumption that truth today means truth tomorrow.

Many people dislike Ronald Reagan, but his "doveryai, no proveryai" (“trust, but verify”) line to Gorbachev is still good advice. (And he took it from an old Russian proverb, which made it doubly pertinent...)
__________________
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
Arby911 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 10:29 AM   #64311
USCENDONE BENE
12
 
USCENDONE BENE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: What's the furthest place from here?
Sure, we should always engage with and question what we're reading or being told.

I guess I just get a little lazy with the idea of reading a book full of ideas and then trying to verify a number of points made haha.

But Arby is right, just because someone says something truthful and verifiable now does not mean we should trust them implicitly forevermore.
__________________
"If you want beef, then bring the ruckus." - Marilyn Monroe

Last edited by USCENDONE BENE : Today at 10:31 AM.
USCENDONE BENE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 10:36 AM   #64312
Arby911
Finding the Pattern
 
Arby911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikLensherr
Chomsky's really smart. I read Understanding Power a long time ago and everything he says he backs up with examples and citations. The footnotes are longer than the book itself. Even if you don't agree with him you'll come away learning something new.


I've read it as well, but any book that compares the US to Nazi's at the outset not only instantly runs afoul of Godwin's law, it sets the tone for dismissive analogy as a tool of implied veracity.

He's very good with words, and one would expect him to be so, but you've also got to make sure that he's not leading you down the primrose path using the same linguistic tactics he's condemning others for.

He may be the ultimate troll...
__________________
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
Arby911 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 10:42 AM   #64313
USCENDONE BENE
12
 
USCENDONE BENE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: What's the furthest place from here?
Godwin's law bothers me...I cannot accept an idea that seems so dismissive of the Nazi comparison, given how humans always have and always will treat each other.

I accept that people use it unnecessarily and without anywhere near the full consideration it needs, but I guess i'll have to read this book and decide for myself if Chomsky's use was inappropriate.

To me, all that Godwin's Law achieves is perpetuating the 'greatest generation' idea (and the inverse of it), like the actions of those people will not be repeated by future generations.
__________________
"If you want beef, then bring the ruckus." - Marilyn Monroe

Last edited by USCENDONE BENE : Today at 10:44 AM.
USCENDONE BENE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 10:49 AM   #64314
Arby911
Finding the Pattern
 
Arby911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by USCENDONE BENE
Godwin's law bothers me...I cannot accept an idea that seems so dismissive of the Nazi comparison, given how humans always have and always will treat each other.

I accept that people use it unnecessarily and without anywhere near the full consideration it needs, but I guess i'll have to read this book and decide for myself if Chomsky's use was inappropriate.

To me, all that Godwin's Law achieves is perpetuating the 'greatest generation' idea (and the inverse of it), like the actions of those people will not be repeated by future generations.


I'm not saying that a Nazi analogy isn't ever justified, just that given the intellectual level of Chomsky (which is considerable, regardless of my personal opinion of his character) it's clear to me that he is using it, not to indict the US (as it appears on the face) but to set the tone for future claims. If a negative connotation is established at the outset, it's easier for the reader to accept similar claims in the future. Anchoring works...

It wasn't inappropriate, it accomplishes exactly what he intended it to, but it's still wrong.

As I've noted, he's very good with words.
__________________
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin

Last edited by Arby911 : Today at 10:51 AM.
Arby911 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 10:56 AM   #64315
USCENDONE BENE
12
 
USCENDONE BENE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: What's the furthest place from here?
Again, I'll have to read it for my own considerations.

Are you saying that he uses the analogy to assess the actions of one administration and then goes on in this vein to level accusations at a later administration as if there is no separation between them?
__________________
"If you want beef, then bring the ruckus." - Marilyn Monroe

Last edited by USCENDONE BENE : Today at 10:58 AM.
USCENDONE BENE is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:17 PM.

Forum Archives / About / TOS / Advertise with us / Customer Support / Ultimate-Guitar.Com © 2015
Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.