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Old 12-04-2012, 06:01 PM   #41
Slashiepie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by z4twenny
Man, no deadlines, you can't work well like that. It's like going to bed late and laying awake worrying about how much sleep you're (not) going to get. As for me, a songs done when its done, I've got a track I started writing when I was 16 and I think its finally complete.... Only 16 years, that's not too bad riht? The idea (for me at least) is to balance what I hear in my head with what the song needs. If I wrote things how i actually heard them in my head my songs would be 30+ minutes long.


At least i'm not alone

Btw: Awesome cover of Head like a Hole.
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Last edited by Slashiepie : 12-04-2012 at 06:05 PM.
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Old 12-04-2012, 06:30 PM   #42
z4twenny
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^ thanks man. Ideally in the end I'll know a songs done when I listen back to it and think "any more is too much, any less would take away from it" it's a learned skill I guess that comes from separating the producer mindset from the musician mindset. The musician side of you wants to add more stuff but the producer side needs to know when enough is enough.
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Check out my new Industrial side project Penis Christ
http://artists.ultimate-guitar.com/penischrist/
Cover of the NIN classic Head like a hole.
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Old 12-05-2012, 12:11 AM   #43
Hail
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to get away from the tough love a bit, the best advice i've heard on songwriting and production: if you get frustrated, take a break, come back with fresh ears - work on something else, get a goodnight's sleep, leave it in your files for a year, listen to some new music. inspiration depends on the individual, and all that went into a piece.

just go with your gut. one day you might decide to scrap it - just as likely, that same day you might completely rework and complete the final piece in a way that you love. hell, even if you love it and think it's perfect, wait 3 days, a week, a month, and just listen to it. music is a cumulative and finicky effort, but at some point, you're bound to say "this is complete, to me, right now, right here, and i'm ready for people to take it in".

the sensation when something gets there is otherworldly, and you need to remember it a year or 2 after you finally put out that EP or album and have to start working on another one. the worst thing in the world is a person who doesn't love what art they can create. you might not see it as perfect, but maybe in 5 years you'll find it hidden on your computer somewhere and listen for old times sake, having forgot all the labor and tears and pain you had at the time, and understand why someone would appreciate your music.

i mean, worst case scenario, you grow to hate what you put out, and at the very worst you can stop giving that out/selling it to people and understand what direction you can go in that would make you happier. art is an ephemeral and eclectic beast, and you can't tackle it by logic any more than you can tackle logic itself. just be happy when you get thrown a bone and learn from your successes just as well as your failures, and it'll come together. even if you're 50 years old when you release one song you're in love with, hell, most people won't have even gotten that far.
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Old 12-05-2012, 05:01 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hail
if you get frustrated, take a break, come back with fresh ears - work on something else, get a goodnight's sleep, leave it in your files for a year, listen to some new music. inspiration depends on the individual, and all that went into a piece.

just go with your gut. one day you might decide to scrap it - just as likely, that same day you might completely rework and complete the final piece in a way that you love. hell, even if you love it and think it's perfect, wait 3 days, a week, a month, and just listen to it. music is a cumulative and finicky effort, but at some point, you're bound to say "this is complete, to me, right now, right here, and i'm ready for people to take it in".


This is absolutely true. And, damn Twenny, I thought I was bad. The song I just posted ("I wanna go the distance") took me four years to finish because I kept scrapping and rewriting the solo and outro. It was an absolute pain in the ass to harmonize and I still don't really like it. Conversely, "Jenny Lee", my previous one, is a full rewrite of the very first composition I ever put down on paper. If I ever feel like I haven't improved as a songwriter, I just listen to the old track. They're worlds apart.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slashpie
HOW THE **** DO YOU GUYS FINISH SONGS?


I tell myself that if I don't finish anything, I won't reach my goal... which is to release an album. EP. Whatever. I guess technically my goal is to have music for people to listen to, which by extension means distribution... but still, said goal cannot be reached without finishing songs.

That said, my tunes aren't really epic productions. Drums to bass to rhythm to background vocals to vocals to solo. That's it. It's fairly easy to know when a song is done because following such a format will allow you to approach it methodically.
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Old 12-05-2012, 12:21 PM   #45
CryogenicHusk
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Originally Posted by Slashiepie
How the **** do you guys finish songs?


Just do it when it's natural. I've made the mistake of thinking "I think the song should keep going" or the opposite "the song should finish here or it will be too long for my purposes" and that's just limiting myself. I'll work on loosening up and letting go of such delimiters.

As for specific ideas on how to do outros, I recently started to pay more attention to how some songs/pieces do codas. Kind of summarize your song in a couple of measures for the outro. Like the end of this:



starting around the 40s mark or so. Not great sound quality, but he played it closest to how I was taught to play it. Anyway, food for thought.

Last edited by CryogenicHusk : 12-05-2012 at 12:23 PM.
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Old 12-06-2012, 08:26 AM   #46
Slashiepie
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Thanks guys.
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i'm the internet equivalent of ripping the skin off my face and strangling you with it right now


Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Albini
Remixing is for talentless pussies who don't know how to tune a drum or point a microphone.
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Old 12-06-2012, 08:48 AM   #47
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is my music pointless and meaningless??? Well it gets me laid on a regular basis. What other point is there to life?
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:53 AM   #48
Hail
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 20Tigers
is my music pointless and meaningless??? Well it gets me laid on a regular basis. What other point is there to life?


by the time you leave the stage, you should be so exhausted from the number of orgasms you had brought on by performing your own music that a girl should be lucky for you to let her take her clothes off in your presence.

the way you say it, you act like every female (and perhaps a good chunk of males) in the crowd doesn't already want to pounce on you like the last hunk of bread in a holocaust caravan. if this is the case, it's clear that you're doing something very wrong.
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:16 AM   #49
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.................... .......................... ... ... .. . . . . .
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Old 12-06-2012, 12:05 PM   #50
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Music is supposed to have a point? I've been doing it all wrong for years!

But seriously, if you're with someone who doesn't like the music you play, that too bad for her. Just play and if she doesn't like it then simply tell her to GTFO. Unless you feel that she's more important to you than music is. Personally I'd take my music over a chick any day.

Now that you've found someone who appreciates your talent, congrats. And if you want to be in a band, go for it. You start now, you play and tour for 40 years and you're the new ZZ Top, writing and recording when they're 70. It's going to be one hell of a fun ride regardless. It's never too late. Your youth isn't wasted, especially at the age of 30. 50 maybe, but not 30. Go for it man.
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:48 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by JayCartay
I mean, you write songs and what not, but you just play them to yourself. Nobody hears them. You're not in a band. Your guitar playing is going nowhere.


Was just reading and came across this passage which made me think of your post...

"The legendary American pianist William Kapell, who died at the age of thirty-one in a 1953 plane crash, once wrote to a friend: "The only moments I have when I play that are worth anything to me are when I can blissfully ignore the people I am supposed to be entertaining. No me; no silly public to amuse; only the heart and the soul, the world, the birds, storms, dreams, sadness, heavenly serenity. Then I am an artist worhty of the name...Until it happens, or if it doesn't happen, I am miserable. "

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Old 12-08-2012, 11:37 AM   #52
MrDo0m
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I've written so many songs that I never finished recording, or stopped writing 75% of the way through because I got sick of it and had some other musical idea I wanted to expand on. I've also recorded songs that took months to write and record, that only fell on a few pairs of ears, but it's always been a fun process. Not to get all cliche on you, but for me, it's about the journey, not the destination.

Also, you may hear a lot of "encouraging" words about how it's "never too early" to get into playing music, but you gotta remember, it's never too late either, except when you truly give up or you're dead.

Last edited by MrDo0m : 12-08-2012 at 11:39 AM.
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