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Old 08-03-2014, 09:26 PM   #21
paul.housley.7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LostHeaven
Many thanks to all for chipping in with these advices! Found the tips about the bridges particularly useful, since this is one of the causes of my indecision between those two models.
I do have some questions, though:



I apologize if this is an ignorant question, but would I be able to circumvent that issue with something like a Tremol-No? Would this be what Dave_Mc was suggesting? Also, would there be any advantage in this, or would I simply be spending money to achieve something that the Ibanez already offers?
Also, as dspellman suggested, if it's just a matter of spending some extra-time maintaining the guitar, I don't mind it. I'm pretty patient and actually appreciate that extra knowledge and practice.


Could you please explain why I should avoid locking nuts? Searched Google for a while trying to find a clear answer, but wasn't successful.


I completely understand your reasoning, but I'm wondering: is a budget of £300 that tight that I'm not able to find a guitar with a decent enough floating bridge that will serve me well until I reach an intermediate level? Buying a hardtail now would save me money but, if I found out I really wanted to use a tremolo, that could mean I would have to buy a second guitar sooner than I would like to.

Paul, thank you for the heads-up on the Yamahas; browsing their site right now. This leads me to a final question: besides the two guitars that I mentioned, do any of you recommend any model in particular that I should consider with this budget?


The advice that you're getting about bridges is aimed at helping you avoid some things that are frustrating.
You can use any cheap tremolo to bend. The strings may be out of tune after the bend. You might not have the ear to notice it at first but eventually you'll get more sensitive to the way the notes are supposed to sound. I'm part-way along that journey myself.
You should block your tremolo. I believe a tremel-no is just a way to block it. Blocking your trem means you just stick a little block of wood in between the tremolo and the body of the guitar so that it can't move.
A fixed bridge avoids that problem and it is also easier to change tunings.

Will you eventually want a tremolo? Yes. But you're not going to only ever buy one guitar in your lifetime, right? There are some trems that are less bad in your price range. A Made in Mexico Strat has a trem that can be good if the guitar is set up just right but there are better trems that are more forgiving. A squier bullet strat has a tremolo that you probably won't ever want to use. The ibanez guys on this forum can talk your ear off about the ibanez trems if you ask.

Don't look for one or the other right now. If you find a good fixed bridge guitar that you like then you should just buy it and you can trade it toward a higher quality guitar with a tremolo some other day.
On the other hand if you fall in love with a guitar that has a crappy tremolo you can still buy that too, but block it.

Learning to play is frustrating enough without also fighting against your tremolo and locking nuts. Avoid those distractions until you have some experience.

If you want a reccomendation that you can grow with - i don't know if you can get these as cheap as I can but at 600 to 700 USD (brand new) a PRS SE custom 24 is a really good starter guitar.
They have a scale length that is halfway between Les Paul and Strat and the sound is in between as well, though it leans more toward the Les Paul side.
They're generally pretty well made and have good quality control. The electronics are decent and the tremolo is good enough that you can use it lightly, or you can upgrade the tuners and the nut and get a really good setup and then the trem will be pretty good for whatever.

They can be had used for under 500 USD.

Last edited by paul.housley.7 : 08-03-2014 at 09:35 PM.
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Old 08-03-2014, 11:02 PM   #22
dannyalcatraz
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Quote:
I completely understand your reasoning, but I'm wondering: is a budget of £300 that tight that I'm not able to find a guitar with a decent enough floating bridge that will serve me well until I reach an intermediate level?


Honestly, I don't know the price at which trems first start being reasonably good. The few guitars I own with them are all over $800- two of those are Bigsbys and 2 were made by luthiers.
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Old 08-04-2014, 01:25 PM   #23
Dave_Mc
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^ I would say the cheapest double locking trems which are known to be reasonable (not amazing, but decent enough to be getting on with) are the frt-x000s (the "x" can be "1", "2" or "3" depending on whether it's chrome, black or gold-coloured). So basically try to find guitars with those trems.

the only concern is, just because a guitar has that trem doesn't mean it's also a good guitar. so you'd want to try the guitar, too.

I know the MIJ charvels which richtone has are good guitars which have an FRT-x000 (and also good pickups), they're good out of the box and are £600. I'm guessing you don't have to go quite that high, though, to get something decent which also has an FRT-x000.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LostHeaven
(a) I apologize if this is an ignorant question, but would I be able to circumvent that issue with something like a Tremol-No? Would this be what Dave_Mc was suggesting? Also, would there be any advantage in this, or would I simply be spending money to achieve something that the Ibanez already offers?
Also, as dspellman suggested, if it's just a matter of spending some extra-time maintaining the guitar, I don't mind it. I'm pretty patient and actually appreciate that extra knowledge and practice.


(b) Could you please explain why I should avoid locking nuts? Searched Google for a while trying to find a clear answer, but wasn't successful.


(c) I completely understand your reasoning, but I'm wondering: is a budget of £300 that tight that I'm not able to find a guitar with a decent enough floating bridge that will serve me well until I reach an intermediate level? Buying a hardtail now would save me money but, if I found out I really wanted to use a tremolo, that could mean I would have to buy a second guitar sooner than I would like to.


(a) It will sort of yeah, but the problem is the tremol-no (at least when I tried it) seemed pretty fiddly. It made an already fairly fiddly process (floyd rose) far fiddlier. In my opinion. I'm kind of an idiot when it comes to anything mechanical, though.

It also still won't cure (at least some of) the problems of, if the cheapo floyd craps out, you have a guitar that's now far more awkward to restring and set up.

(b) cheap floyd roses tend to be not that great.

the floyd rose special might buck that trend (i'm sceptical, but i've seen some people post that it does who I sort of trust so ), at least once you replace the block and saddles to brass and steel respectively, but I have no experience with it. And I'm guessing as a beginner you don't want to be faffing round with that kind of stuff (I've never had to replace saddles or sustain block and I've been playing for years).

EDIT: the other advantage of the FR special (and indeed the frt-x000) is that it's supposedly a direct swap for an Original Floyd Rose (or, I presume, Schaller Lockmeister which is a bit cheaper and the same thing except with a Schaller stamp, far as I'm aware) if the cheaper trem does crap out. But that's more money (~£130 for the schaller, more like £200 for the OFR).

(c) yep that's kind of the paradox with starting out. you want to spend as little as possible in case you quit, but if you don't quit you'll probably kick yourself that you tried to spend as little as possible.
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Last edited by Dave_Mc : 08-04-2014 at 01:26 PM.
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