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Old 12-25-2012, 03:46 PM   #1
ibanez1511
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Help with harmony.

Please can you take a look at this harmony and help me identify what is going on in bars 5 to 8 ?

at first i thought a Bbdom7 chord to An Amaj ( something along the lines of bVI7 to V but the G sharp has got me thinking about french 6ths and all kinds of madness !

thank you all.


< a d f > 1
<a cis e > 1
<g cis e >1
<d f a > 1
<bes d gis>1 %the Bb flat to a gsharp is a augmented 6th
<a bes ces>1
<bes d gis>1 %the Bb flat to a gsharp is a augmented 6th
<a ces e>1
< a d f > 1
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Old 12-25-2012, 04:17 PM   #2
jazz_rock_feel
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Dmin
Amaj
Edim
Dmin
B7 (G# == Ab)
cluster? (I'm assuming bes and ces are Bb and Cb)
B7
A something
Dmin

So in D minor it would be:
I-V-ii-I-VI7-cluster-VI7-V(ish)-I

Definitely no augmented 6th chords.
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Old 12-25-2012, 04:29 PM   #3
ibanez1511
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yes. ces is supposed to be a csharp. my mistake.

but the score i am reading from definitely has an interval of a Bflat to a Gsharp. in the key of D minor , i am wondering what is going on .

just to clarify with es i mean flat and with is i mean sharp. thank you by the way.
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Old 12-25-2012, 04:36 PM   #4
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Those augmented sixth intervals are just that - augmented sixth chords.
If it's preceding the V then it's just notated "+6". If it precedes another chord in the key it's just +6/x. Generally you find +6's with other notes, wherein they can be labeled italian, french, or german augmented 6th chords...but the aug 6 itself, resolving in that nature is the same thing, and has the same function in strongly preceding the dominant.
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Last edited by chronowarp : 12-25-2012 at 04:39 PM.
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Old 12-25-2012, 04:47 PM   #5
jazz_rock_feel
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Okay, the A-Bb-Cb thing threw me off, but if that's A major (or something like it) then I buy augmented sixth chords.
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Old 12-25-2012, 05:16 PM   #6
ibanez1511
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thank you both. and jazz rock feel sorry for the confusion!
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Old 12-25-2012, 05:31 PM   #7
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I was reading it wrong as well. So what jazz labeled as B7 are it+6's. But the cluster that's A Bb Cb...I don't know what I'd label that. I'd need to see the actual notes on a staff to see the voiceleading. In that sequence of chords it's probably just functioning as a deceptive resolution of that first +6 chord, which then appears again and resolves to the V then I64.
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Last edited by chronowarp : 12-25-2012 at 05:33 PM.
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Old 12-25-2012, 06:11 PM   #8
ibanez1511
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the harmony is from Mazurka - Pyotr Iiyich Tchaikovsky.

And just to confusions this that cluster is a A,Bb and C# in the music it is a single line. but as a cluster it as a satisfying crunch to it! ( i kind of hear it as A root /b2 (b9) and a major 3rd of An A Dominant 7th chord. But I think i am coming it from a Jazz perspective. Perhaps a classical approach might be different ?
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Old 12-25-2012, 06:16 PM   #9
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In that case I'd probably just label it as a V. Depending on how it happens metrically, I'm assuming that first +6 partially resolves to that V chord, then goes back to the same voice, before it finally resolves outwards to an unaltered V chord.
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Old 12-25-2012, 06:25 PM   #10
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Yeah, my guess is that he was just sliding back and forth between the dominant and +6, but keeping the Bb from the +6 sustaining. But again, without seeing the actual voicing it's hard to tell.
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Old 12-25-2012, 09:30 PM   #11
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(Just looked at the score)

Dm
A
C#dim7
Dm
+6
A
+6
A

With a tonic pedal for the first 4 chords.

Merry Fackin' christmas MT.

Yer welcome.
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Old 12-26-2012, 01:46 AM   #12
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lol thanks dude. huge help.
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Old 12-26-2012, 04:29 AM   #13
ibanez1511
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yes. Thank you griffRG7321.
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